Conceptual engine regulations

[UlleGulle]

The Wankel (piston-less) type of 'ROTOR' engine which some calls a 'ROTARY' engine is in fact a 'ROTOR' engine and not a 'ROTARY' engine. On the other hand a 'ROTARY' four stroke piston engine is totally of different concept to that of a 'Radial' four stroke piston engine. The 'ROTARY" cylinder block, cylinders, cylinder heads and anything bolted to the above rotates around a stationery crankshaft.

And the "Wankel"-engine is not Wankels design. In fact he hated it. Which brings me to a slightly off topic question. Has anyone in the modern day tried to build an engine of Wankels design? If not, why? I know you had to pick it appart to change spark plugs, but that doesn't seem to be a big problem for a race engine.

[gruntguru]

How would you fix the rotary problems like the flooding ? And the issue with the bearings ? I almost did buy a mazda.
Till i read that for short trips engine would flood after stopping and then the seals/bearing issue

Flooding? You mean fuel? That's not a wankel problem - its a carburettor problem.

[DenBommer]

I was wondering what you think of my future F1 concept:

A 3 inline turbocharged engine with direct drive capable of reaching up to 25,000 rpm. The engine serves more as a generator. No gears, also superlubricity on the pistons and crankshaft. The pedals on the steering wheel that normally serve to shift gears would now be used to control torque vectoring, along with a KERS system on the front and rear axles. And supercapacitors/batteries.

[wuzak]

I was wondering what you think of my future F1 concept:

A 3 inline turbocharged engine with direct drive capable of reaching up to 25,000 rpm. The engine serves more as a generator. No gears, also superlubricity on the pistons and crankshaft. The pedals on the steering wheel that normally serve to shift gears would now be used to control torque vectoring, along with a KERS system on the front and rear axles. And supercapacitors/batteries.

As a generator for electric drive?

As a generator you would want the most efficient engine possible and it would run at constant speed at maximum efficiency.

I don't think a 25,000rpm engine would have a sufficiently wide power band to enable it being used as direct drive. And you would still need a clucth to stop the car.

The car would be fully electric drive, which should make the torque vectoring easier to implement (1 motor per wheel).

Batteries could be used to boost the power output of the drive motors.

[DenBommer]

Which engine would you recommend?

I considered this concept because the engine will serve more as a generator from 2026 onwards, and this will be even more emphasized in the next regulations.

[Tommy Cookers]

fully electric drive has multiple deficiencies
similarly its relatives (torque vectoring and full regeneration) are highly over-rated
do we want cars with a diamond wheel layout ? - iirc like Sunbeam Mabley

stepless direct drive (as road hybrids) won't sound 'racy' (as present and 2026)
electric drive & regen are driver aids

the 'combustion' engine should have pistons and an MGU-H

[DenBommer]

fully electric drive has multiple deficiencies
similarly its relatives (torque vectoring and full regeneration) are highly over-rated
do we want cars with a diamond wheel layout ? - iirc like Lanchester/Sunbeam Mabley

stepless direct drive (as road hybrids) won't sound 'racy' (as present and 2026)
electric drive & regen are driver aids

the 'combustion' engine should have pistons and an MGU-H

I would rather opt for a 6-speed transmission V8 biturbo lean burn engine with superlubricity coating on the crankshaft, pistons, and gearbox. In-wheel motors. Within about a decade, graphene and carbon nanotubes will have further developed. MGUK on both the front and rear axles. I am still undecided about torque vectoring; I would have this preset by a GPS system and also allow for real-time adjustments to create more exciting battles.

[Zynerji]

Just make the torque-vector differential a manual driver adjustment with triggers on the steering wheel. That way, the diff would normally be fully locked, but the driver could slip each side of the diff to balance the car. Very much a driver skill differentiator.

[wuzak]

I considered this concept because the engine will serve more as a generator from 2026 onwards, and this will be even more emphasized in the next regulations.

The ICE will be primarily used to drive the car.

It will sometimes be used to generate electricity for the ERS, mostly at part throttle, where some of the ICE power is used for regenreation.

[leblanc]

How would you fix the rotary problems like the flooding ? And the issue with the bearings ? I almost did buy a mazda.
Till i read that for short trips engine would flood after stopping and then the seals/bearing issue

Flooding? You mean fuel? That's not a wankel problem - its a carburettor problem.

Per Wikipedia, “A flooded engine is an internal combustion engine that has been fed an excessively rich air-fuel mixture that cannot be ignited.”

Ask any fuel-injected 13B or Renesis owner what happens when they run their engine while cold for a short duration lol.

[DenBommer]

Just make the torque-vector differential a manual driver adjustment with triggers on the steering wheel. That way, the diff would normally be fully locked, but the driver could slip each side of the diff to balance the car. Very much a driver skill differentiator.

It seems fun to me, but I'm afraid it might be a bit overwhelming for the driver. What I mean is: 'more additional instruments on the steering wheel.

[DenBommer]

Just make the torque-vector differential a manual driver adjustment with triggers on the steering wheel. That way, the diff would normally be fully locked, but the driver could slip each side of the diff to balance the car. Very much a driver skill differentiator.

Did you mean this whit triggers on the steering wheel

https://carbuzz.com/ferrari-customizabl ... n%20demand.

[Zynerji]

Just make the torque-vector differential a manual driver adjustment with triggers on the steering wheel. That way, the diff would normally be fully locked, but the driver could slip each side of the diff to balance the car. Very much a driver skill differentiator.

Did you mean this whit triggers on the steering wheel

https://carbuzz.com/ferrari-customizabl ... n%20demand.

Kinda. I was thinking more like xBox controller triggers. So, a digital-proportional trigger that would just shift the bias from left to right as the driver is cornering. This would be best done in such a way that all differentials are locked with no passive adjustment, so the driver would need to get VERY good at it to be fast and save tyres.

[Farnborough]

Just make the torque-vector differential a manual driver adjustment with triggers on the steering wheel. That way, the diff would normally be fully locked, but the driver could slip each side of the diff to balance the car. Very much a driver skill differentiator.

Did you mean this whit triggers on the steering wheel

https://carbuzz.com/ferrari-customizabl ... n%20demand.

Kinda. I was thinking more like xBox controller triggers. So, a digital-proportional trigger that would just shift the bias from left to right as the driver is cornering. This would be best done in such a way that all differentials are locked with no passive adjustment, so the driver would need to get VERY good at it to be fast and save tyres.

A question, ever driven anything with a locked or substantially locked differential ? (No not Karting, with very low weight etc) there's movement in transmission for very good reason, the higher the traction with tire, then the more important it becomes too.

Even the CV are unlikely to survive, and how about hand modulation of torque while steering and keeping the throttle wide open to facilitate ? Substantially into the realms of significant ergonomic and control dexterity wierdness for drivers to implement.

It really is nothing like x-box.

[Tommy Cookers]

Just make the torque-vector differential a manual driver adjustment with triggers on the steering wheel. That way, the diff would normally be fully locked, but the driver could slip each side of the diff to balance the car. Very much a driver skill differentiator.

Did you mean this whit triggers on the steering wheel
https://carbuzz.com/ferrari-customizabl ... n%20demand.

Kinda. I was thinking more like xBox controller triggers. So, a digital-proportional trigger that would just shift the bias from left to right as the driver is cornering. This would be best done in such a way that all differentials are locked with no passive adjustment, so the driver would need to get VERY good at it to be fast and save tyres.

compared to the traditional LSD drive .... this isn't any answer ....

on corner entry it can't increase the utilisation of the potential tyre grip - without giving an adverse yaw torque
on corner exit there's no increase available because the potential grip is already fully used

a different wheel arrangement may have benefits