2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Cs98]

than the very rich and very well established Ferrari team.

It's funny how in the face of a budget cap someone still appeals that one team is supposedly richer than the other, when both teams spend the same amount.

Budget constraint did not come overnight. Teams had time to plan their transition into the restriction regime. And of course infrastructures and know how inherited from the past and acquired thanks to a bigger expenditure capability are more than valuable. Indeed hierarchy remained more or less the same. Were you expecting a 10 team competition in 2022, weren't you?

Add on to that a PU program with several hundred employees.

[yooogurt]

Budget constraint did not come overnight. Teams had time to plan their transition into the restriction regime. And of course infrastructures and know how inherited from the past and acquired thanks to a bigger expenditure capability are more than valuable. Indeed hierarchy remained more or less the same. Were you expecting a 10 team competition in 2022, weren't you?

Especially with Mercedes, it's noticeable that what the team used to spend a lot on before is helping it now (nope).
I am more than sure that they would be happy to spend x2 of their budget to solve their problems (like they do before), but for the sake of this budget limitation and adopted that everyone would be in the same conditions. The amount of money you can spend is irrelevant if you can't spend more that other teams.

Then there is appeal, the best people in F1 will always be drawn to the likes of RBR Ferrari & Mercedes first, budget cap or not there are teams that will always have a built in "pull" advantage.

And yet Aston Martin got Dan Fellows and his team, Rob Marshall went to McLaren, Sanchez went there and without getting the desired position he is now TD Alpine, James Vowles left Mercedes for Williams, Mekis also left Ferrari for RB etc.

[AmateurDriver]

Budget constraint did not come overnight. Teams had time to plan their transition into the restriction regime. And of course infrastructures and know how inherited from the past and acquired thanks to a bigger expenditure capability are more than valuable. Indeed hierarchy remained more or less the same. Were you expecting a 10 team competition in 2022, weren't you?

Especially with Mercedes, it's noticeable that what the team used to spend a lot on before is helping it now (nope).
I am more than sure that they would be happy to spend x2 of their budget to solve their problems (like they do before), but for the sake of this budget limitation and adopted that everyone would be in the same conditions. The amount of money you can spend is irrelevant if you can't spend more that other teams.

Mercedes has clearly stepped back in terms of involvment. Mercedes F1 has not even ever been a department of corporate Mercedes indeed. They are simply not finding anymore the pleasure and fun in the game they used to, and decided to downsize their effort. Ferrari is much different. Ferrari was born a racing team. Enzo stared selling road cars to fund competitions. Mercedes is a car maker that sometimes appears on track. Ferrari is (was?) a full-bloaded racing team.

[Vanja #66]

Updates in France in 2022 by half, there was a boost in pace but the car got worse to drive.
Does that count?

Worse to drive was a myth, the car got worse due to TD39 which came just 2 races later. In between was Hungary where Ferrari was again the best car like France, but the wall managed to do the most idiotic thing possible and put Leclerc on Hards that didn't work on any single car. Otherwise, it was an easy win

Mercedes has clearly stepped back in terms of involvment. Mercedes F1 has not even ever been a department of corporate Mercedes indeed. They are simply not finding anymore the pleasure and fun in the game they used to, and decided to downsize their effort. Ferrari is much different. Ferrari was born a racing team. Enzo stared selling road cars to fund competitions. Mercedes is a car maker that sometimes appears on track. Ferrari is (was?) a full-bloaded racing team.

That's a new level of looking at things upside down

[yooogurt]

Mercedes has clearly stepped back in terms of involvment. Mercedes F1 has not even ever been a department of corporate Mercedes indeed. They are simply not finding anymore the pleasure and fun in the game they used to, and decided to downsize their effort. Ferrari is much different. Ferrari was born a racing team. Enzo stared selling road cars to fund competitions. Mercedes is a car maker that sometimes appears on track. Ferrari is (was?) a full-bloaded racing team.

Different philosophies have no bearing on the fact that it is impossible to spend more money than is limited by regulation. Point is, being richer than someone else doesn't give you any advantage if you can't spend more money than the others.
ps. there a third shareholder mercedes f1 with equal parts by Daimler AG, INEOS and Toto Wolff

Worse to drive was a myth, the car got worse due to TD39 which came just 2 races later. In between was Hungary where Ferrari was again the best car like France, but the wall managed to do the most idiotic thing possible and put Leclerc on Hards that didn't work on any single car. Otherwise, it was an easy win

Always wondered why Binotto denied the effect of the TD39 on the car speed and handling, and said it had no effect whatsoever.

[dia6olo]

Budget constraint did not come overnight. Teams had time to plan their transition into the restriction regime. And of course infrastructures and know how inherited from the past and acquired thanks to a bigger expenditure capability are more than valuable. Indeed hierarchy remained more or less the same. Were you expecting a 10 team competition in 2022, weren't you?

Especially with Mercedes, it's noticeable that what the team used to spend a lot on before is helping it now (nope).
I am more than sure that they would be happy to spend x2 of their budget to solve their problems (like they do before), but for the sake of this budget limitation and adopted that everyone would be in the same conditions. The amount of money you can spend is irrelevant if you can't spend more that other teams.

Then there is appeal, the best people in F1 will always be drawn to the likes of RBR Ferrari & Mercedes first, budget cap or not there are teams that will always have a built in "pull" advantage.

And yet Aston Martin got Dan Fellows and his team, Rob Marshall went to McLaren, Sanchez went there and without getting the desired position he is now TD Alpine, James Vowles left Mercedes for Williams, Mekis also left Ferrari for RB etc.

It's not unusual for the "better" personnel to move around the big 3 teams, they all have pull, as for the AM's and current McLaren's and others of this world, however you dress it up, those names you mention are all people not required/let go by the 3 big teams...

[yooogurt]

It's not unusual for the "better" personnel to move around the big 3 teams, they all have pull, as for the AM's and current McLaren's and others of this world, however you dress it up, those names you mention are all people not required/let go by the 3 big teams...

Did you have proof that these names weren't needed by the big team? I don't think so, and decides the factor imho, that they can't pay big money to all the big engineers. Of course there have been movements in times of unlimited budgets, but not as many as there are now.

[dia6olo]

It's not unusual for the "better" personnel to move around the big 3 teams, they all have pull, as for the AM's and current McLaren's and others of this world, however you dress it up, those names you mention are all people not required/let go by the 3 big teams...

Did you have proof that these names weren't needed by the big team? I don't think so, and decides the factor imho, that they can't pay big money to all the big engineers.

No they can't pay big money to all the big engineers but I think it's safe to say that they are going to keep the ones they consider the best. So again whichever way you dress it up, these people were not required and let go. There's no proof required, it's just common sense.

[yooogurt]

No they can't pay big money to all the big engineers but I think it's safe to say that they are going to keep the ones they consider the best. So again whichever way you dress it up, these people were not required and let go. There's no proof required, it's just common sense.

Engineers are leaving big teams because other smaller ones are willing to pay them more, and this is literally just further proof that being richer doesn't help in any way within budget cap

[AmateurDriver]

No they can't pay big money to all the big engineers but I think it's safe to say that they are going to keep the ones they consider the best. So again whichever way you dress it up, these people were not required and let go. There's no proof required, it's just common sense.

Engineers are leaving big teams because other smaller ones are willing to pay them more, and this is literally just further proof that being richer doesn't help in any way within budget cap

Big teams -big names, big tradition, big fanbase- does not translate automatically in big expenditure. Aston is injecting a huge amount of money into its challenge. McLaren has been trying very hard under Zak Brown. Alpine, on the other, is backed by Renault (it was Renault until lately), one of the heaviest player in automotive market in the world, but has never had a top budget.

[dia6olo]

No they can't pay big money to all the big engineers but I think it's safe to say that they are going to keep the ones they consider the best. So again whichever way you dress it up, these people were not required and let go. There's no proof required, it's just common sense.

Engineers are leaving big teams because other smaller ones are willing to pay them more, and this is literally just further proof that being richer doesn't help in any way within budget cap

That's as maybe but it does not change the fact that for whatever reason, when big names become available, be they engineers or even drivers, for the most part it will be RBR, Ferrari and Mercedes that will have first dibs and if wanted for the most part it'll be those teams said engineers/drivers will choose first.
That is the reality.

[jrdls]

Always wondered why Binotto denied the effect of the TD39 on the car speed and handling, and said it had no effect whatsoever.

I would guess that, if he admitted to that effect, he would be admitting that Ferrari was cheating with the F1-75. After all, while Ferrari didn't do anything against the wording of the regulations, many viewed the plank trick as against its spirit. And after what happened in 2019-2020 I wouldn't fault him for that.
P.S.: Or he was just too proud to admit that the TD39 affected the car.

[Xyz22]

Always wondered why Binotto denied the effect of the TD39 on the car speed and handling, and said it had no effect whatsoever.

I would guess that, if he admitted to that effect, he would be admitting that Ferrari was cheating with the F1-75. After all, while Ferrari didn't do anything against the wording of the regulations, many viewed the plank trick as against its spirit. And after what happened in 2019-2020 I wouldn't fault him for that.
P.S.: Or he was just too proud to admit that the TD39 affected the car.

Exactly.

[Vanja #66]

Exactly.

That's another myth, dominant among english media. There was no cheating at any time, car was legal within prescribed plank measurment methodlogy. A part of TD39 requirment was also a limit on vertical oscillation, both amplitude and peak G. Ferrari ran with and allowed oscillations before Spa. Drivers didn't enjoy it, but didn't complain too much. At Spa, this had to change and a massive change was evident.

[Xyz22]

Exactly.

That's another myth, dominant among english media. There was no cheating at any time, car was legal within prescribed plank measurment methodlogy. A part of TD39 requirment was also a limit on vertical oscillation, both amplitude and peak G. Ferrari ran with and allowed oscillations before Spa. Drivers didn't enjoy it, but didn't complain too much. At Spa, this had to change and a massive change was evident.

I didn't say they were cheating. I meant that if Binotto admitted they lost performance due to the TD039 the media (especially British) would have "accused" Ferrari of exploiting a loophole in the regulations and they would have pushed the cheating narrative massively (like they did in 2018 thanks to Mercedes/Hamiton PR. Remember the double battery drama?)