2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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mendis
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 17:24
mendis wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 11:43
Ferrari is Ferrari.
Ridiculous argument invalidates everything you wrote.
Don't get me wrong. I genuinely like Ferrari and really want them to do well. But you know as well as me that it's so frustrating that they keep screwing season after season where they start well.

DChemTech
DChemTech
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Location: Delft, NL

Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 17:24
mendis wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 11:43
Ferrari is Ferrari.
Ridiculous argument invalidates everything you wrote.
Please refer us to a course on logic that supports the statement that a single ridiculous statement invalidates any other statement by a person by default :roll: .

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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DChemTech wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 17:36
dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 17:24
mendis wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 11:43
Ferrari is Ferrari.
Ridiculous argument invalidates everything you wrote.
Please refer us to a course on logic that supports the statement that a single ridiculous statement invalidates any other statement by a person by default :roll: .
It's nice you find it funny. Here's how it works: I don't engage in conversation with people that believe that a team like Ferrari or Mercedes failing to catch up is because they are idiots. This is such a flawed premise that anything built on top of it is not worth the bandwidth to read it.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 18:05
It's nice you find it funny. Here's how it works: I don't engage in conversation with people that believe that a team like Ferrari or Mercedes failing to catch up is because they are idiots. This is such a flawed premise that anything built on top of it is not worth the bandwidth to read it.
Obviously they are not idiots. Honda and Yamaha in MotoGP are not idiots. I would say their understanding of motorcycle downforce is quite poor to very poor. Honda even ran their bike in 2023 testing without any wings to get a baseline, as they don't seem to understand wings & diffusers on motorcycles very well. Obviously the knowledge of Scuderia Ferrari and Mercedes GP about venturi tunnels and car downforce is much better than that! :)

Honda and Yamaha campaigning for a return of bespoke electronics is like Mercedes GP campaigning for a return of FRIC suspension and inerters (or even worse, Russell campaigning for active suspension, c'mon get real, what a joke :lol: ), something to play more to their advantage. But rightly it should be ignored, both in MotoGP and Formula One. The rules are there -- concessions and reverse wind tunnel/CFD time respectively -- rightly, Honda won a race in 2023 so they (correctly) do not get the concessions.

dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 11:05
This is not good design of the rules. Even if you stomp your feet yelling injustice and impurity, viewership will go down.
To change the concessions rules after the fact to benefit Honda and Yamaha would be disingenuous. If Ducati bike is the best, surely they deserve to be the champions? If Aprilia and KTM have the most innovative aero departments, surely they deserve to be the nearest challengers?

Honda and Yamaha's qualifying positions of the six last places for the Spanish GP surely reflects their competence? :?:
Last edited by JordanMugen on 23 Feb 2024, 19:11, edited 3 times in total.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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JordanMugen wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 19:03
dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 18:05
It's nice you find it funny. Here's how it works: I don't engage in conversation with people that believe that a team like Ferrari or Mercedes failing to catch up is because they are idiots. This is such a flawed premise that anything built on top of it is not worth the bandwidth to read it.
Obviously they are not idiots. Honda and Yamaha in MotoGP are not idiots. I would say their understanding of motorcycle downforce is quite poor to very poor. Honda even ran their bike in 2023 teesting without any wings to get a baseline, as they don't seem to understand wings on motorcycles very well. Obviously the knowledge of Scuderia Ferrari and Mercedes GP about venturi tunnels and car downforce is much better than that! :)
It helps Ducati a lot that they have by far the most powerful engine when it comes to options for downforce. Even Mercedes have enjoyed that same privileged advantage back in mid 2010's.

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dren
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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Just shake it off guys.

Image
Honda!

cplchanb
cplchanb
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 19:13

Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 18:05
DChemTech wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 17:36
dialtone wrote:
23 Feb 2024, 17:24


Ridiculous argument invalidates everything you wrote.
Please refer us to a course on logic that supports the statement that a single ridiculous statement invalidates any other statement by a person by default :roll: .
It's nice you find it funny. Here's how it works: I don't engage in conversation with people that believe that a team like Ferrari or Mercedes failing to catch up is because they are idiots. This is such a flawed premise that anything built on top of it is not worth the bandwidth to read it.
It's always a moving goalpost. Nobody sits still on development. The only way towers can catch up is if either rb makes a huge design mistake a la mp-18/19, another team finds a silver bullet like the Renault mass damper, or
The fia steps in to nerf them like ferrari 2005.

TeamKoolGreen
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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If you don't like 2024, just wait till 2026. The 2026 engine regs are a disaster waiting to happen. The whole architecture is driven by environmentalist appeasement. The reality is, there is no appeasing environmentalist ideologues. They won't be happy until every motorsport is shut down. I think this could lead to a split up of F1. Mercedes and Renault will want to take the next step and go 80% electric. And Red Bull and maybe Ferrari will finally put a line in the sand. They might just say screw it and start their own series. With V-8 or 10's. Something to this effect anyway.

Nobody likes the 2014 engines. They are complicated, expensive, heavy and too quiet. But here we are doubling down on them. The F2 cars are already louder than the F1 cars. Imagine 2026. Engines should be de politicized.

Rant off.

stewie325
stewie325
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Joined: 18 Nov 2007, 19:18

Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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Not sure why everyone is scared about 2024 being a boring season - we'll have plenty of drama:

- Alonso w@nk1ng himself off all year in public as the "only available WDC" desperately trying to get the Merc seat
- Hamilton w@nk1ng himself off all year in public because he "knew the zeropods wouldn't work"
- Perez getting sacked mid-season and Riccy doing just as bad in his place
- Xavi to Red Bull as Binotto's #2, and the various strategy decisions thereafter
- Max leaving mid-season for VCARB because their RB19 clone is actually faster

:wink:

CaribouBread
CaribouBread
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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stewie325 wrote:
26 Feb 2024, 11:43
Not sure why everyone is scared about 2024 being a boring season - we'll have plenty of drama:
..
- Perez getting sacked mid-season and Riccy doing just as bad in his place
...

:wink:
Half expecting this to happen tbh and it would be hilarious.

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franbatista123
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Joined: 19 Sep 2023, 19:45

Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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CaribouBread wrote:
26 Feb 2024, 12:15
stewie325 wrote:
26 Feb 2024, 11:43
Not sure why everyone is scared about 2024 being a boring season - we'll have plenty of drama:
..
- Perez getting sacked mid-season and Riccy doing just as bad in his place
...

:wink:
Half expecting this to happen tbh and it would be hilarious.
Semi related but i have a conspiracy theory that the lap that Ricciardo did and "would've put him next to Max on the grid" is bullshit and only served to give him confidence. Not sure they could hide that from him though.

Farnborough
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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TeamKoolGreen wrote:
26 Feb 2024, 02:00
If you don't like 2024, just wait till 2026. The 2026 engine regs are a disaster waiting to happen. The whole architecture is driven by environmentalist appeasement. The reality is, there is no appeasing environmentalist ideologues. They won't be happy until every motorsport is shut down. I think this could lead to a split up of F1. Mercedes and Renault will want to take the next step and go 80% electric. And Red Bull and maybe Ferrari will finally put a line in the sand. They might just say screw it and start their own series. With V-8 or 10's. Something to this effect anyway.

Nobody likes the 2014 engines. They are complicated, expensive, heavy and too quiet. But here we are doubling down on them. The F2 cars are already louder than the F1 cars. Imagine 2026. Engines should be de politicized.

Rant off.
Well said, and the big car manufacturers will only ever drive it with their own agenda, which is obviously facing the political outwash of so many opponents to their trade.

Absolutely now any involvement in sponsorship or support is caught in the crossfire with regard to corporate responsibility and appeasement of whomsoever deems it their right to judge other's activities on the basis that it doesn't fit within their narrow view of life as they dictate how that should happen.

So many in personal, commercial, political sphere attempting to greenwash their activities, more and more with no real coherence or understanding of what their actions do in reality.

This sport, with 24 performances a year, disseminated across and throughout communication networks with little further environmental impact, in all likelihood generating small contribution to world event, given the contributory effect of war mongering and world trading generally. Just comparison with another and far more prominent sport like football, will make the total F1 operation seem like a very small influence in reality. The joke being that the total fuel used to actually race these cars in infinitesimally small and almost invisible in pure quantity, making the R&D cost to design build an run them outstrip any advantage they may have at exhaust pipe.
That'll be the same for electric motive power too, no output ? But at what R&D cost, the true cost of that research in all of it's field to deliver a supposed green power unit.

Medium to longer range ..... it doesn't really look like it has an interesting future does F1, or anything else that may offend anyone while desperately attempting to appear virtuos :D

In effect, like going to see a big music concert only to be listening to the electricity sub station :mrgreen: while ignoring all of the infrastructure these event entail, as does any mass assembly of people away from their normal living habitat.

Cs98
Cs98
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Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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CaribouBread wrote:
26 Feb 2024, 12:15
stewie325 wrote:
26 Feb 2024, 11:43
Not sure why everyone is scared about 2024 being a boring season - we'll have plenty of drama:
..
- Perez getting sacked mid-season and Riccy doing just as bad in his place
...

:wink:
Half expecting this to happen tbh and it would be hilarious.
I was looking at some odds of Perez winning/not winning a race this season. Given I also half expect him to not make it to the end they were quite juicy.

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hollus
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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Testing is over, racing starts soon and this started devolving into everything ranting, with its inevitable descent into politics.
Locked, let’s have an F1 season instead.


P.S. An clarification of "politics" is probably in order here:
There are a couple of posts above that do brush with politics and got to stay up. They are off topic on this particular "moaning" thread, but their brush with politics goes to discuss the relation between 2026 rules and a certain environmental agenda that appears to have had an influence on shaping those rules. I mean, if Ross Brawn goes "as electric as possible", then it might be politics also, but it is definitively F1 relevant.
Now, there were several other posts that were just plain "us vs them" politics. And the inevitable "them vs us" response. They were no longer F1 related and they were quite divisive, and thus those were zapped and contributed to the closure of this thread. That is the reason politics are off limits in the forum, unless strictly F1 related, us right, you wrong, followed by no, you wrong, us right, doesn't lead to anything good. You came here to discuss F1, not politics.
Rivals, not enemies.

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hollus
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2024 Season Bickering and Moaning

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Quite a few people seem to think that a moaning thread would clear the race and team threads of ranting posts.
That is a worthy goal. Let's give it a try?

A reminder to everyone to still keep it civil and respect forum rules in general. A "moaning" thread is no excuse to get nasty towards others.

Reopened.
Rivals, not enemies.