Will Brexit have an impact on F1?

[FoxHound]

This sounds very similar to what we have here. Other arguments I've heard is that we need freedom of movement because these immigrants are filling jobs that we ourselves as a nation lack. In other words, our own citizens wouldn't dare work for some jobs. That is certainly true, though many forget that this situation is self-inflicted. A couple of decades ago, these jobs were better payed because the (free) market dictated the salary and cost by a natural progression of supply and demand. No one willing to work the job you are offering? Prices goes up. Too much supply of people competing to work that job? Salary and costs go down. Same thing on the housing market and just about any goods really.

It's cultural.

English people generally, with some exceptions, believe cleaning to be...how shall I put this....below them?
GSA, Noonan and many more larger companies in the cleaning industry started in Scotland and Ireland and grew into national companies from the work that many eastern Europeans and other nationalities put into it.

The issue with your suggestion, is that if the price for cleaning went up, business/private user would not pay for it. This is business Britain! There would be a minimal standard in cleaning and that's your lot.
So an industry would regress, and the standard would drop. That's a pretty damning indictment of Brexit.

And in general, speaking to British friends, the issue they have is not with Europe, but migration from culturally incompatible countries. In these communities, you will find hatred towards British natives. It may not be prevalent, but it certainly exists. You will also find people who have lived in the country for over 40 years do not speak a single word of English. This cannot be right, but it is not the fault of the EU.
For matter of comparison, my better half is from eastern Europe and speaks 4 languages fluently. All her friends speak English to a level of being able to chat about politics, sport etc. They all work. They're also all horrified.

Then compound stupidity is further demonstrated by what France are about to unload on Britain due to the exit...

The English wanted to take back their freedom: they must take back their border

.
Calais will be dumped on Dover, as France have been propping up Asylum migrants for the last 20 years, all on Britain's behalf.

Apart from slower in trade due to the lack of freedom of movement, meaning less jobs and a knock on effect to other sectors, do you think the 62% of numpties in Dover who voted to leave thought of this.... Or did they have rule Britania ringing in their ears with false promises of £350m to spent on the health service every week?

http://www.dover-express.co.uk/eu-refer ... story.html

[R_Redding]

Do you really believe that outside the EU everything is easy, and a happy non-law dependant world?

Off course its not... but EU deals are one size fits all deals.

Leaving enables the UK to form our own specific deals.. And also.. the EU hardly has a good reputation for being able to speedily form and implement trade deals anyway.

To be a part of a bigger things can be harder sometimes but it has benefits, and the UK has taken advantage of them. Now it seems that this country has been somekind a pariah when it has had many privileges.

The UK has been a net contributor to the EU for every single year of its membership. Many of the safety standards the EU enjoys were lifted directly from BS standards..
Please compare that with Spain Greece Poland etc,etc.

Plus the UK has not been a part of the Shengen area and the euro.

If Cameron had won Brexit .. Lord Hill and his cohorts were already in place to move the UK to the Euro and into shengen. UKIP and Tory sceptics would have been silenced. EU full speed ahead.

Dont expect privileges, they come with some obligations.

Obligations.. When I buy a pair of boots from America.. they dont expect their courts to assume jurisdiction over the UKs .. Trade is just trade.
Many see the EU as nothing more that a socialist political mechanism. It can keep its Coudenhove-Kalergi nonsense.

[bhall II]

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” ~ Isaac Asimov

That quote is brilliant! =D>

It's too often frustratingly poignant.

All the same, I still tend to believe that the citizens of democratic countries get the governance they deserve.

If the only thing a voter knows about any given issue is what they've learned from politicians, and if there are enough of those ill-informed voters to turn the tide of an election because everyone else failed to coherently articulate alternatives, then I think it's entirely appropriate for all of them to be represented by politicians who embody the same intellectual apathy.

And in general, speaking to British friends, the issue they have is not with Europe, but migration from culturally incompatible countries. In these communities, you will find hatred towards British natives. It may not be prevalent, but it certainly exists.

We shouldn't gloss over the fact that the West's long history of meddling in the affairs of others, be it overtly or covertly, has greatly contributed to both the attitudes of emigrants and to the instability from which they flee. If not quickly getting the hell out of Dodge while bitterly cursing those responsible, exactly what did we expect from them?

[Jolle]

Do you really believe that outside the EU everything is easy, and a happy non-law dependant world?

Off course its not... but EU deals are one size fits all deals.

Leaving enables the UK to form our own specific deals.. And also.. the EU hardly has a good reputation for being able to speedily form and implement trade deals anyway.

To be a part of a bigger things can be harder sometimes but it has benefits, and the UK has taken advantage of them. Now it seems that this country has been somekind a pariah when it has had many privileges.

The UK has been a net contributor to the EU for every single year of its membership. Many of the safety standards the EU enjoys were lifted directly from BS standards..
Please compare that with Spain Greece Poland etc,etc.

Plus the UK has not been a part of the Shengen area and the euro.

If Cameron had won Brexit .. Lord Hill and his cohorts were already in place to move the UK to the Euro and into shengen. UKIP and Tory sceptics would have been silenced. EU full speed ahead.

Dont expect privileges, they come with some obligations.

Obligations.. When I buy a pair of boots from America.. they dont expect their courts to assume jurisdiction over the UKs .. Trade is just trade.
Many see the EU as nothing more that a socialist political mechanism. It can keep its Coudenhove-Kalergi nonsense.

I think you over simplified some of the issues. First of all, the one rule that fits all. That just isnt true. Many countries have their own systems working next to each other in specific areas. A good example is drugs laws and weapons. Most of the rules that we do share are the common sense ones, like how long kids bedrooms are allowed to burn or what kind of toclxics are allowed in your milk. And yes, market is market but there is a thing like consumer and production protection. Your boots that you bought in the US, which aren't certified in the EU, when they go wrong or you have an accident because of them, you are not protected by UK or EU law. Same goes for product protection. When something is certified, it protects you, as a producer, from all kind of claims. Above that, EU law prohibits selling a regional product, for instance cheese from a fine place in England, to be sold if it's not made in that place and with the same quality. When the UK leaves the EU, we (in the EU) don't have to buy Kent-Cheese from Kent anymore, but it can be produced in China and sold as Kent Cheese.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Yes the UK has a negative return in EU money at the moment, which they all ready lost now, for the next 25 years because of the supports of the banks.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[R_Redding]

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I notice your from Dordrecht NL. Can you remember the outcome of your vote on the EU in 2005.
You voted No.


The EU Democracy takes over ... "It was a protest vote", "The electorate didn't know what they were voting for", "1/2 of the elecorate are too stupid to vote","It'll make us look silly,destroy our economy". You know..All the things being claimed now.

And..........Shazzam .. Lisbon comes ..your're In.


Do you honesty think the UK will be allowed to leave the EU.

[flynfrog]

Lets try to stick to the topic of how the Brexit pertains to F1 and not get into a politics discussion.

[FoxHound]

We shouldn't gloss over the fact that the West's long history of meddling in the affairs of others, be it overtly or covertly, has greatly contributed to both the attitudes of emigrants and to the instability from which they flee. If not quickly getting the hell out of Dodge while bitterly cursing those responsible, exactly what did we expect from them?

6 degrees of separation will ensure some responsibility will lie in the West. But we should not blame the (Bush/Blair)incompetent leaders so as to put this on their doorstep. The West enriches the Middle East by Billions every day after all, and Western involvement in middle eastern affairs is at times, a proxy for the interest of the family of Saud...funny that.

This here problem started way before those 2 were born. Hell, the problem has been in that particular part of the world for centuries, even amongst themselves.
And leaving the EU will actually make this problem worse for the UK, because they will no longer have a buffer to decline entry.

Whoooops....just got flynfrogs post...


How this relates to F1....hmmm.

No race at Silverstone due to year on year economic recession, lack of staff for hospitality and cleaning, and massive security issues from militant socialists decrying the excess on one side, and militant remainers using large sports events to decry the slippery slide of Britain into an ultra nationalist land of xenophobia.

[Steven]

If I may just clarify my earlier post that I believe a referendum is particularly bad system for something so essential.

I did not mean to say people are stupid, but most people only look as far as their own garden, and sometimes that's pretty small. People will vote in these silly, yes/no referenda based on their emotions, on what they discuss with family and friends. For most, that's limited to a town. On top of that, everybody tends to remember the annoying things, and far more quickly forget about that has improved.

For instance, I mentioned that the cookie law annoys me terribly, but I didn't mention the positives that Europe has managed to do in relation to Microsoft's blatant efforts to fight competition out of its market, and enacting a law that enables Europeans to require the removal of their personal data from online resources. Countries to try to do this on their own, especially smaller ones, would not be able to withstand lobbying. But indeed, the UK may be big enough to do this on their own as well, although I doubt they would've gone this far with the above examples.

Anyway, I guess the UK has these laws implemented, and I guess they are also not going to start scrapping such EU-laws like crazy once they're out. The differences will probably increase on the longer term, and that is exactly what makes trading or working abroad that much more complicated. I think this last part will eventually impact F1 teams, but probably in such a slow transition that everybody will just live with it.

Also, as for wages, I would expect that (nearly) all people working in UK factories are paid in pounds right now. For Mercedes (although maybe not for Mercedes HPP), this might be interesting, as their home company is of course trading in Euro (contrary to McLaren of Williams for instance).

[bhall II]

6 degrees of separation will...

Six degrees is about five more than you really need here.

Seriously, it's almost impossible to overstate the impact wrought over the years by Western actors, both public and private, that have deliberately stoked the flames as the means to an economically favorable end. It's not just the Iraq war and its perpetrators, and it's not just the latest rounds of sectarian violence and their instigators. Those are symptoms, not the disease.

I'll leave it at that.

[FoxHound]

If I may just clarify my earlier post that I believe a referendum is particularly bad system for something so essential.

I did not mean to say people are stupid, but most people only look as far as their own garden, and sometimes that's pretty small. People will vote in these silly, yes/no referenda based on their emotions, on what they discuss with family and friends. For most, that's limited to a town. On top of that, everybody tends to remember the annoying things, and far more quickly forget about that has improved.

The other issue is misleading politicians. Surely the 3% difference in results would be affected by a lie that is £350 million dollars made available to the health service, weekly.
As I said before, it was instantly retracted by the cretinous Nigel Farage.

Should the result not be void, as the referendum was held under a falsehood?

[SameSame]

If the only thing a voter knows about any given issue is what they've learned from politicians, and if there are enough of those ill-informed voters to turn the tide of an election because everyone else failed to coherently articulate alternatives, then I think it's entirely appropriate for all of them to be represented by politicians who embody the same intellectual apathy.

I could not disagree with this more. For example, most South Africans are too poverty stricken and uneducated to follow investigative journalism that uncovers how courrupt and incompetent the ruling party is. Added to that, measures are trying to be put in place to censor government reporting because it is "sensitive information pertaining to state affairs". If you look at almost all of the ethical theories, the one thing they have in common is that people make decisions without being biased and having all the relevant information. Sometimes people are not allowed to articulate their alternative views, even under a "democracy".

[Jolle]

If I may just clarify my earlier post that I believe a referendum is particularly bad system for something so essential.

I did not mean to say people are stupid, but most people only look as far as their own garden, and sometimes that's pretty small. People will vote in these silly, yes/no referenda based on their emotions, on what they discuss with family and friends. For most, that's limited to a town. On top of that, everybody tends to remember the annoying things, and far more quickly forget about that has improved.

The other issue is misleading politicians. Surely the 3% difference in results would be affected by a lie that is £350 million dollars made available to the health service, weekly.
As I said before, it was instantly retracted by the cretinous Nigel Farage.

Should the result not be void, as the referendum was held under a falsehood?

Yes i agree on both. Something so complicated, so interlocked with all of society can't be dealt with with a simple in or out. Second, 48% op the voters feel betrayed (at least) and part of the 52% that actually believed the 350mln a week NHS money.

Not just the outcome looks grim, but the way it's been handled and having one in the first place.

But, it happened, now the UK and the EU have to deal with it.
Maybe it's inexperience on the subject of referenda and being to used to the regional voting system.

[bhall II]

I could not disagree with this more...

Political repression is decidedly undemocratic, which makes voting more or less irrelevant by design.

I'm talking about the electorate in places where voting is (ostensibly) a legitimate instrument for change, everyone is at liberty to cast a ballot, and information is readily available to any and all who seek it. I think those people get exactly what they deserve.

[Gaz.]

How this relates to F1....hmmm.

No race at Silverstone due to year on year economic recession, lack of staff for hospitality and cleaning, and massive security issues from militant socialists decrying the excess on one side, and militant remainers using large sports events to decry the slippery slide of Britain into an ultra nationalist land of xenophobia.

Sorry FH I usually agree with many things you post but the above even if being flippant is just bloody ridiculous.

[Cold Fussion]

Given how much of the British economy is dependent on trade within the EU, it seems remarkably short sighted to have 50% of your trade having to deal with European law and bureaucracy while having no power to influence either. It is ironic that of all countries, England want to pursue more isolationist future in our massively globalised world.