Mercedes VS Renault 2011

[beelsebob]

Oh cripes, now we're getting into the tortoise vs hare argument ... this way madness lies ... all we can give at this stage are subjective judgements!

so...ummm...which one is the tortoise and which one is the hare?

Merc is clearly the hare – faster car, shreds its tyres.

[marcush.]

the drivers don´t do their job at renault...I don´t think this is a fair statement.
We have seen this year that grid position is not as important as it was so heidfelds only weakness -qualy speed- is not really a big factor .
The Renault has not shown the speed it promised to have in the winter ,simple as that .That´s not driver .Kubica would not hav won in that car .period.
He would not have been second in qualy in Monaco
And if at all he would have a few points more than each of the current drivers.He´s not messias,fact of life.
Renault will have to rise their game if they want to keep their 4th position considerably.Mercedes sure looks to be more on the way up then them.

As for the tyre issue:Schumacher had absolutely no rear tyre issues in Canada.posting his quickest time on the final lap ....so maybe just maybe could it be they realise how to set the car up ?We have been told that Canada is notorious for eating rear tyres...but itz did not happen to MSC.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Bets on who will finish ahead then?

I stake £100 Merc do the business over Renault, Betfair do a lovely fan v fan bet if anyone cares to take me up?

[Traction]

Bets on who will finish ahead then?

I stake £100 Merc do the business over Renault, Betfair do a lovely fan v fan bet if anyone cares to take me up?

screw that...have you seen the exchange rate to teh Rand??

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The Rand is kak I know!


£10 to you then, Traction(circa 130 "rant")

[ESPImperium]

Mercedes have had 3 DNFs this season, Renault have had 2. Mercedes have had a double DNF at Austrailia and one DNF at Monaco with Schumacher.

Both of Renaults DNFs have been down to accedents, and the last 2 races have seen them with Petrov at Monaco and Heidfeld at Canada.

Not that the Renault guys cant look after their equiptment, it says that the Mercedes guys have slightly less relyable cars too.

However, lets look at non classified finishes now that have finished in non points paying posistions;

Mercedes: 4 = 2x P12 (ROS - MAL/MSC - TUR) 2x P11 (ROS ESP & CAN)
Renault: 3 = 2x P12 (HEI - AUS/CHI) 1x P17 (PET - MAL)

So it looks like that the Renault is a faster car so far.

Now ill have a look at points paying posistions that dont finish on the podium;

Mercedes: 7
Renault: 6

Lets have a look at Poidums now;

Mercedes: 0
Renault: 2

Average posistion finish, to my data says that the Renault is 3.37 and the Mercedes is 4.00. Quali pace is better for Mercedes with an average place of 0.707 so far, Renault is 1.024 so far.

The mercedes is the faster car, however its just not fast enough in the race. I also think that Schumacher and Rosberg can get more from the car, just the car is holding them back a little, to the point that Renault has is more relyable and quicker to the finish line. Also Petrov is better this year than last, and Heidfeld is the safe hands that Renault wanted to get to replace Kubica, who on analysis could have mullered the car into places it should have not been in.

[Traction]

As far as I know between the two cars in question only one had a retirement due to failure .i.e technical and that was Mercedes with Schumachers air box fire incident....the rest were race incidents.....

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

As far as I know between the two cars in question only one had a retirement due to failure .i.e technical and that was Mercedes with Schumachers air box fire incident....the rest were race incidents.....

rosberg also had a last lap altercation with Massa whilst in 9th in Canada.

[Traction]

As far as I know between the two cars in question only one had a retirement due to failure .i.e technical and that was Mercedes with Schumachers air box fire incident....the rest were race incidents.....

rosberg also had a last lap altercation with Massa whilst in 9th in Canada.

Sure....but it doesn't reflect on which car is better.....

[n smikle]

the drivers don´t do their job at renault...I don´t think this is a fair statement.
We have seen this year that grid position is not as important as it was so heidfelds only weakness -qualy speed- is not really a big factor .
The Renault has not shown the speed it promised to have in the winter ,simple as that .That´s not driver .Kubica would not hav won in that car .period.
He would not have been second in qualy in Monaco
And if at all he would have a few points more than each of the current drivers.He´s not messias,fact of life.
Renault will have to rise their game if they want to keep their 4th position considerably.Mercedes sure looks to be more on the way up then them.

As for the tyre issue:Schumacher had absolutely no rear tyre issues in Canada.posting his quickest time on the final lap ....so maybe just maybe could it be they realise how to set the car up ?We have been told that Canada is notorious for eating rear tyres...but itz did not happen to MSC.

They had changed the geometry of the rear uprights, so maybe that had something to do with it.

[madly]

As far as I know between the two cars in question only one had a retirement due to failure .i.e technical and that was Mercedes with Schumachers air box fire incident....the rest were race incidents.....

rosberg also had a last lap altercation with Massa whilst in 9th in Canada.

Wasn't it Rosberg accident with Kobayashi in battle for 7th, which eliminated few laps before Heidfeld in battle for P5 (btw. the same "unexpected slow down at turn exit by Kamui" and front wing lost of following car), so in Canada order could be as follows:
P4 - Schu,
P5 - Hei,
P6 - Pet,
P7 - Ros?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ Madly

Regardless of supposed positions, I feel Mercedes will easily be ahead of renault in the next 4 races. Just my opinion, not based on any concrete info just a gut feeling.

[marcush.]

If the signs are right and Mercedes has found a solution to their rear tyre abuse issues I think the driver pairing of rosberg and Schumacher will outshine Heidfeld and Petrov.
I think we will see a new old Michael Schumacher in the next races he got a sniff at the podium last week and I think his hunger is back.I´m not so sure about rosberg handling a strong Schumacher but we´ll see.I expect him to be even wider than he was already...so fuel for hot moments there.
I think Renault will as well come stronger into the coming races and the one I think will buckle is Petrov .

[munudeges]

While Mercedes have problems Renault just doesn't inspire me with confidence right now. They have a competent set up and a good bunch of engineers but I'm not confident in their ability to keep developing that car or in their drivers. You can argue about why Heidfeld hasn't been as good as he should have been but he's not really matching up against his team mate at the moment.

[CyleB]

the gap is only 8 points i say Merc goes up after Euro GP