Mercedes VS Renault 2011

[dren]

Monza is somewhere I think we can see Mercedes really fly, more to do with the cars straightline speed and its engine.

True but you also need excellent traction out of slow turns, relatively good grip in the high speed corners and good brakes.

I think the Mercedes has a good chance in Spa. Monza not so much, and really none of the remaining races. Maybe Brazil?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Spa requires very good high to medium dowforce. Corners like eau rouge etc. will be a massive factor, especially the sweeping in field.
As for monza, it doesnt require the same as it is the track spent at 100% throttle the longest.... As is the amount of time the car spends steering straight ahead.
I wonder why some think monza is more critical for low speed traction when Spa has the bigger braking and slower corners... The first corner, and the bus stop.

[marcush.]

Neither Mercedes nor Renault have performed on track everyone including the teams themselves had predicted good showings.
Monaco was the a disastrous weekend for mercedes and Renault and both had high hopes for that track.
Spain ,where Mercedes had tested so well in the winter ...to me the pattern of strength and weekness seems not clear to the teams so how can we know...and with Silverstones rule change we can expect that one of the two will suffer more than the other so that could mark a decicive date for gaining or retaining p4 in the championship.
To me it is without question that both teams are not in a position to challenge Mclarten,RedBull or Ferrari for the top 3.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Of course not Marcush.

With Renault its a case of who is in charge to make firm decisions.
With Mercedes its a case of time. 2009 fluke aside, Mercedes are trying to turn this squad into world beaters. This takes time.

They are doing ok, as are Renault. Not as good as they hoped, but when you look at the time and money spent by the top 3, you have to give the other 2 the same time before comparing. Renault fare a bit worse in that sense, but given their changes its expected.

[dren]

Renault is capable of building a championship car with less funds. We have not seen this from the Mercedes team yet. The BGP01 was rumored to be the most expensive car ever built in F1. I do fully expect the team to be more competitive as I believe they have a good structure in place now.

I am surprised Renault is as competitive as they are. I am not surprised the Mercedes is quick, but has issues that hamper its ultimate pace. The team has had tire issues for as long as I can remember, even dating back to the BAR days.

Sadly I don't see a lot changing for next year.

[bot6]

Dren, you forget that Merc has less money than even Renault this year. 72M I think, compared with 86M for Renault.

So the argument of Renault doing more with less doesn't really work...

[HampusA]

Spa requires very good high to medium dowforce. Corners like eau rouge etc. will be a massive factor, especially the sweeping in field.
As for monza, it doesnt require the same as it is the track spent at 100% throttle the longest.... As is the amount of time the car spends steering straight ahead.
I wonder why some think monza is more critical for low speed traction when Spa has the bigger braking and slower corners... The first corner, and the bus stop.

SPA is actually a low DF track and with low DF you take Eau Rouge flat easy in Q trim.
eau rouge & raidillion isn´t really what it once was.

agree regarding the braking Monza/SPA. SPA has two tight corners, Monza, one.

[HampusA]

Renault is capable of building a championship car with less funds.

Humans work in all of the F1 teams. There are no aliens working at Renault.

[dren]

Renault is capable of building a championship car with less funds.

Humans work in all of the F1 teams. There are no aliens working at Renault.

Didn't they do so with Alonso a few years back?

[HampusA]

Alonso earned his WDC. Like everybody else on the grid.

Even Mr Vettel

[Carlo's]

From what I know Renault is far better than MGP, Renault could have fought even with Ferrari if they had Kubica. Current drivers just don't have this confidence and eagerness to lead the team and develop the car in right way. It's the same situation as it was in 2010. If Kubica wasn't driving for Renault you wouldn't have seen fireworks from R30.

[Byronrhys]

Dren, you forget that Merc has less money than even Renault this year. 72M I think, compared with 86M for Renault.

So the argument of Renault doing more with less doesn't really work...

I see these figures flying round on forums yet i've never seen a direct estimate from a reliable source, can you post one? It was also rumored in 2010 Mercs budget was 180M so how would it be cut so drastic to fodder levels.

[marcush.]

wonderboy Kubica would not fight for wins this year as well...sorry but it´s just romantic to think he could make this big a difference.

[HampusA]

From what I know Renault is far better than MGP, Renault could have fought even with Ferrari if they had Kubica. Current drivers just don't have this confidence and eagerness to lead the team and develop the car in right way. It's the same situation as it was in 2010. If Kubica wasn't driving for Renault you wouldn't have seen fireworks from R30.

In theory yes. I´m a huge Kubica fan but i still don´t think the car is capable of wins,
Actually, it´s the only guy i root for since 08.

[bot6]

Dren, you forget that Merc has less money than even Renault this year. 72M I think, compared with 86M for Renault.

So the argument of Renault doing more with less doesn't really work...

I see these figures flying round on forums yet i've never seen a direct estimate from a reliable source, can you post one? It was also rumored in 2010 Mercs budget was 180M so how would it be cut so drastic to fodder levels.

In 2010, the Merc budget was 80M, announced by Mercedes Central themselves. This year, they did an announcement saying they would reduce the budget by 10%, but without specifying the figure, hence the 72M. But maybe this whole money question is worthy of a specific thread.

By comparison, Renault is about 86M, Ferrari, RBR and McLaren closer to 200M.