Mercedes VS Renault 2011

[Carlo's]

wonderboy Kubica would not fight for wins this year as well...sorry but it´s just romantic to think he could make this big a difference.

We are talking about which car is better MGP vs Renault, not if R31 is a race winning car.

[marcush.]

You can surely not value the car separately from the drivers.On one hand people suggest the car was the deciding factor for top or flop results and on the other hand people are bemoaning the loss of kubica at team renault hindering them to bag respectful results.
I don´t think formula 1 is about car potential ,it is about how the operation works as an entity and how it analysis adresses and erases it´s weaknesses in a positive efficient quick ways...driver,each teammember and car ..Iz´s not about qualyspeed or even having the quickest car ..just look at Button raising from dead last to win a grandprix dominated by RedBull and Vettel...

[Carlo's]

The output effect of overall car's speed is a sum of car's speed and driver's ability, The problem is that Renault drivers don't extract full potential of R31, and therefore mask the team's efforts. I have got some knowledge about that case, so you may trust my information or not. Renault R31 is more or less on F150 Italia's level.

[marcush.]

that is a claim you cannot prove I don´t accept this.Every single driver does commit errors .The teams commit errors and rob drivers of good positions (Heidfelds car burning down in Fp3 was hardly his fault).So to lay the blame solely at petrovs and heidfelds door is not valid in my view.
Petrov is praised by the team for his improved form this year -but he matched Kubica last year already in the season closing races.Heidfelds race speed is convincing Renault lotus as well they have only critisised his qualy speed.
Renault is 4th currently due to their drivers not in spite of them.

[Pierce89]

Dren, you forget that Merc has less money than even Renault this year. 72M I think, compared with 86M for Renault.

So the argument of Renault doing more with less doesn't really work...

I see these figures flying round on forums yet i've never seen a direct estimate from a reliable source, can you post one? It was also rumored in 2010 Mercs budget was 180M so how would it be cut so drastic to fodder levels.

In 2010, the Merc budget was 80M, announced by Mercedes Central themselves. This year, they did an announcement saying they would reduce the budget by 10%, but without specifying the figure, hence the 72M. But maybe this whole money question is worthy of a specific thread.

By comparison, Renault is about 86M, Ferrari, RBR and McLaren closer to 200M.

I think people have tried to tactfully ask you for a source, without any sources, throwing these numbers around just makes the readers roll their eyes and think: "whatever you say buddy"

[bot6]

A lot of the info comes from the press releases surrounding this book (unfortunately, I have to rely on second hand accounts of the book since I still haven't been able to put my hand on a copy):

http://www.businessbookgp.com/

and 100+ other websites and blogs talking about F1. Basically it's an estimation based on the figures that seem to come back the most. It IS an estimation, and estimations can be wrong, sure.

I actually did make a specific thread for this discussion now, so if you have any better or different info, please do state it there. F1 financial waters are not the clearest, so the whole point here is to gather as much info and as many "trained opinions" as possible in order to end up with a better idea of the current budgets than we have now.

So yes, you can roll your eyes all you want, as it is a starting estimate, not an absolute truth. But you could also help the research effort instead of just bashing freely. If you have a better idea than me about the 2011 Mercedes GP budget, why don't you state it?

Up to you.

And to answer your question more directly about the Mercedes budget, the 2010 one was announced by Mercedes in a press release. At 80M Euros.

And another Mercedes press release said they would reduce their budget by 10% this year in agreement with the spirit of the RRA.

If you want, I'll try to find these press releases again and post them in the other thread.

[marcush.]

I ´m a bit concerned about Brawn taking Rosbergs state of mind to the press at this time..could it be we have seen Nico buckle under the prospect of having not a winner car again? It almost looks like Brawn is starting a campaign to help the public understand why he is not constantly beating €Schumacher anymore or what.