Challengers concede f1 title

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:59 pm

Either way, here is the u-turn.

http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/3213/7006993/Hamilton-U-Turn-I-will-never-give-up

Hamilton now claims he will never give up.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:09 pm

@ Traction

Lets wait and see how Vettel will be in his 34+ years (if hes still racing).
I find disturbing that u name all this great drivers as inferior examples.In my eyes all that u mentioned ther are a lot greater than Vettel...Even if they got a single digit amount of wins as u say.I think all those drivers know the meaning of the word racecraft...As for Massa,this guy has his share of bad luck with his accident and his team always f***ed up with his psychology.In 2008 he was a monster driver.

By the way in your list you forgot Coulthard!... [end/sarcasm]
Poleman
 
Joined: 2 Feb 2010

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:10 am

First off, do not mistake what appear as similar comments by two very different drivers as being driven by the same agenda.

For Alonso, I do believe where he's coming from. He has a long term contract, and his interests extend beyond this year, well into the future. He is being brutally blunt, and more than anything, preparing the tifosi for another year of disappointment. But he's also putting pressure on Ferrari, to decide here and now to either keep development of the 2011 car going, or just dump it and devote all resources towards the 2012 effort.

Hamilton, now that's a big question mark. First he rolls over, then a few days later tweets everyone in the spirit of William Wallace. I gotta tell you, I wonder who and what controls that young man's brain, because he's been all over the map in the last month. Maybe it's his new agent, XIX Entertainment, that want him to pressure McLaren for more money, not likely coming. So weird as this seems to me, I do believe Mr Hamilton is shopping around for a new team and more money, if McLaren don't offer him a new contract with lots and lots of zeros.
Beer is cheaper than therapy.
DaveKillens
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2005

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:09 am

He's the most Loyal driver in history and he's not shopping around because it is either Ferrari or RedBull.

Speaking of the Championship it is obviously over. The only times Ferrari and Mclaren get close to the Bulls is in unusual circumstances. (Barcelona no KERS, Monaco, Canada rain, and mistake by Vettel). You just can't beat a car that is half a second faster on average.
Last edited by Steven on Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Delete fanboy comments
"You can't change what happened. But you can still change what will happen.
Sebastian Vettel"
PlatinumZealot
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2008

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:54 am

Yep, anyone would say Hamilton already got a response from the team, hence the new declaration, but maybe he's simply loyal and he was reprimanded for not being so?

Or perhaps he's loyal all the time but some times he forgets how loyal he is, until PR reminds him?

Or maybe the first declaration wasn't made by Hamilton but by a driver that looks just like Hamilton but that driver is not driving anymore in F1 and that twin driver that is not Hamilton has already left the building?

It's all so confusing and my medication is almost over. Can someone explain?

Then, more confusion.

Are Red Bulls one second faster than everybody?

... or...

Are McLaren and Ferrari one second slower than Red Bull?

I say that because the following question became more and more important in my feeble mind:

Are Virgin and HRT like 325 seconds slower than any arthritic turtle that might stray through the track?

If so, why is that suddenly important? Because now they are 326 seconds slower?

I haven't heard Kartikeyan complaining (he just keeps that creepy smile all the time, if the glimpse we got of him in Valencia means anything) about the new abysmal difference between his car (or what passes as such) and Vettel's.

Actually I haven't heard Kartikeyan saying anything, if that's the problem at hand (I mean, if it's lack of precise and accurate communication between drivers and we, the loyal public).
Ciro
Ciro Pabón
 
Joined: 10 May 2005

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:32 am

[...]
Last edited by Steven on Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No trolling here please
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:32 pm

It is odd how suddenly Alonso has thrown in the towel. He was talking about a second championship starting at Silverstone, maybe he realises the regulations changes aren't going to make a difference?

[...]
Last edited by Steven on Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Stripped replies on edited posts
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP
Diesel
 
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Location: ...

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:46 pm

[...]
Last edited by Steven on Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Stripped replies on edited posts
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:09 pm

Poleman wrote:@ Traction

Lets wait and see how Vettel will be in his 34+ years (if hes still racing).
I find disturbing that u name all this great drivers as inferior examples.In my eyes all that u mentioned ther are a lot greater than Vettel...Even if they got a single digit amount of wins as u say.I think all those drivers know the meaning of the word racecraft...As for Massa,this guy has his share of bad luck with his accident and his team always f***ed up with his psychology.In 2008 he was a monster driver.

By the way in your list you forgot Coulthard!... [end/sarcasm]

:lol: I hear you...who knows, maybe you right and Vettels performance drops and he kind of fades away...its possible with any driver and their career but at the moment he is on a winning streak and only fate will decide how long the wave will last. 8)
Generally I don't care about what people say. I have to be clear with myself. When everything goes well, people celebrate you, when you make mistakes people criticize you.
Sebastian Vettel
Traction
 
Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:54 pm

n smikle wrote:He's the most Loyal driver in history.


Compared to who? Mark Donohue, who formed a partnership with Roger that only ended when Mark died? Or Jimmy Clark, where if you google for a picture of him, it's always in a Lotus. How about Ronnie Peterson who surrendered his year to support Mario, in the understanding that 1979 would be his? Sheesh, I can list dozens more.
Beer is cheaper than therapy.
DaveKillens
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2005

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:21 pm

n smikle wrote:He's the most Loyal driver in history ...

Wasn't Schumacher's 11 year tenure at Ferrari the longest lasting team/driver pairing in history?

Forget about Hamilton's support from McLaren during his formative years; collecting the cheques to continue his career took no real loyalty from Lewis, only from the team that bankrolled his career.

When Lewis has spent 12 years in a McLaren race seat, maybe you can then award him the "most loyal" accolade.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."
gridwalker
 
Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Location: Sheffield, UK

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:29 pm

Gridwalker - you are correct Sir. Michael Schumacher race for Ferrari for 11 years and then stayed on for another 3 as an adviosr/test driver. Of the top of my head the next longest period at a team by a driver is Mika Häkkinen, who was at McLaren for 9 years.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:49 pm

Today's topic is "fanboyism," sometimes also referred to as "man love" or "hero worship." It is considered by some authorities as a, (usually) temporary form of insanity. Here is an excellent example:

n smikle wrote:He's the most Loyal driver in history and he's not shopping around because it is either Ferrari or RedBull.


Class dismissed.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:03 pm

DaveKillens wrote:First off, do not mistake what appear as similar comments by two very different drivers as being driven by the same agenda.

For Alonso, I do believe where he's coming from. He has a long term contract, and his interests extend beyond this year, well into the future. He is being brutally blunt, and more than anything, preparing the tifosi for another year of disappointment. But he's also putting pressure on Ferrari, to decide here and now to either keep development of the 2011 car going, or just dump it and devote all resources towards the 2012 effort.

Hamilton, now that's a big question mark. First he rolls over, then a few days later tweets everyone in the spirit of William Wallace. I gotta tell you, I wonder who and what controls that young man's brain, because he's been all over the map in the last month. Maybe it's his new agent, XIX Entertainment, that want him to pressure McLaren for more money, not likely coming. So weird as this seems to me, I do believe Mr Hamilton is shopping around for a new team and more money, if McLaren don't offer him a new contract with lots and lots of zeros.


Why are your posts always sweet and sour?
I could almost predict the nasty back end on Hamilton.

Alonso's thinking is no different.
They just asked Hamilton the question when he just got out of the car, so the disgusting pace difference will still be fresh on his mind. It's a disheartening race, obviously both drivers can revamp their opinion as they step back and look on the situation.

You can't over analyze something like that. Even Button has the same exact thoughts.
Any driver would feel hopeless after that race.
Encouraging the fans after that by saying you wont give up, though reality says it may be hopeless has nothing to with shopping around for money or mind control.

You always post some thing positive so you can build up you negativity credit Dave, when there is really nothing different between the 3 drivers who just got their asses handed to them by redbull. :lol:
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:43 pm

n smikle wrote:
gridwalker wrote:
n smikle wrote:He's the most Loyal driver in history ...

Wasn't Schumacher's 11 year tenure at Ferrari the longest lasting team/driver pairing in history?

Forget about Hamilton's support from McLaren during his formative years; collecting the cheques to continue his career took no real loyalty from Lewis, only from the team that bankrolled his career.

When Lewis has spent 12 years in a McLaren race seat, maybe you can then award him the "most loyal" accolade.


Schumacher already changed teams! Not to mention he left Ferrari for Merc! How can he be loyal?! Pure lies.

Let me educate you on the definition of Loyal:

Loyal: unswerving in allegiance:


http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2572 ... f1-driver/


Hamilton becomes 'most loyal' F1 driver

11 April 2011
It is now official that Lewis Hamilton is at the top of the list for most Grands Prix contested with only a single team. The Malaysian Grand Prix was the Englishman’s 73rd since entering Formula 1 with McLaren in 2007, surpassing former double Champion Jim Clark’s previous figure of 72 races with Colin Chapman’s Team Lotus.

“It makes me feel very humble – I never saw Jim Clark race, but I know that he’ll always be remembered as one of the greats and as a loyal Lotus driver,” Hamilton commented. “Loyalty’s extremely important and I’m proud to be mentioned in the same breath as him.

“It only gives me even more determination to bounce back stronger than ever.”


Dude, I am loyal to my girlfriend, but she isn't the first one I've ever had. Does that make me a cheat? :lol:

Why do you think they places 'most loyal' in quotation marks in that article? Because someone else said it and they were repeating the phrase verbatim without wanting to take responsibility for the quote. This is because the phrase itself is incredibly subjective, as loyalty can be manifested in many forms.

There have been numerous times when Lewis has criticised the team publicly, which many people would view as disloyalty, but that perception is ignored by the metric that loyalty can only ever be shown by the length of time that you spend with your first employer (as is the case with your quote). What if no other teams had openings in the mean time? Is refusing to move due to a lack of opportunity still considered as loyal, or just pragmatic?

The notion of being able to measure loyalty in terms of how long you stuck with your first employer is pretty daft to say the least. Personally, I would use stronger words to describe the idea, but the mods wouldn't like it.

P.S.
Comparing the number of races contested by Clark and Hamilton is another red herring : there were fewer races back then, so Clark would have had to contest many more seasons in order to contest the same number of races. As Clark would have been at lotus for a longer period (no doubt earning MUCH less money) I would actually say that he was still the more loyal driver.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."
gridwalker
 
Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Location: Sheffield, UK

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