Starts (why Mark Webber is losing out)

[raymondu999]

Afraid I'm just seeing an evidence of him being "too good a good driver", hes an average driver in a great car who makes far too many stupid mistakes to ever be a WDC

That's your opinion, but a driver doesn't get to Formula 1 and isn't employed by arguably the best team in F1 by making the same mistakes every single race or being a poor driver. He's had horribly reliablility his entire career, just like Kimi did. He was barely a World Champion because his car failed him at every other race. Mark is a great driver and something must be wrong with his car, this has never happened to him in his entire career. If he's an average driver then why is it his car, and only his car, that goes into anti-stall at the beginning of every race? What's your explanation other than he's a middle of the pack guy?

I don't disagree with your point about him getting to F1; nobody gets to F1 without talent (unless you're Sakon Yamamoto). However he didn't land into the best team in F1; he landed into a midfielder; that developed themselves to a top-level team.

[HampusA]

And now he´s being retained because RBR knows it´s better to have one super strong guy that gets the drivers title and then have one that picks up the pieces in case something goes wrong.

Webber is absolutely perfect for Red Bull. Just like Massa is to Ferrari.
Mclaren has in some way showed that the chance of --- happening is greater when you have two solid drivers capable of taking another title.

But in Mclarens defense, they have probably the best duo ever in F1 due to the nature of both drivers. They respect each other very much and it shows on track.
Bit different then Senna vs Prost

[Lycoming]

I wouldn't call Webber RB's Massa just yet. the 2 brazillians have a long history of being #2 but Last year, Webber was ahead in the championship, winning races, challenging for the title, etc. Its only this year that Vettel has been totally dominant and mark has been pushed back.

[HampusA]

In all fairness Webber looked good when Vettel did not.
And the other fact that Alonso was the one leading the championship coming into the last race.

Webber is done as solid threat for the title.

[LionKing]

I wouldn't call Webber RB's Massa just yet. the 2 brazillians have a long history of being #2 but Last year, Webber was ahead in the championship, winning races, challenging for the title, etc. Its only this year that Vettel has been totally dominant and mark has been pushed back.

Last year the reliability problems costing Vettel three wins and ~ 70 points did the trick. It would not have been close last year too if it were'nt for those...

[raymondu999]

Yes and Webber's wins last year started with that massive confidence boost he got in Spain. If Vettel had won the first 3 on the trot; and Webber didn't finish 2nd constantly or challenge him, then getting overtaken in China (twice) by Vettel; it could, crucially, have broken his spirits and we may never have seen his Barcelona and/or Monaco drives

[n_anirudh]

THere was a piece on this on ONE HD in Aus, where CHorner spoke about the revs, he admitted its partly Marks fault and partly the engine management systems designed by Renault about the starts. He did infact mention that the optimum rev range was a narrow band and Seb V came close to having a bunny hop start like Mark @ Spa..

I doubt if Mark has a confidence problem....

[raymondu999]

Yes Seb came almost to anti stall too in Spa. He was lucky Lewis had a bad start in Spa or it would've been a repeat of last year

[Mandrake]

Vettel's Start in Monza wasn't good either this time. Too much wheelspin off the line. Haven't seen Webber's start in Monza, was it better?

[raymondu999]

Webber got a decent start but Massa had a stellar one IIRC.

[HampusA]

Arguably Hamilton had a shitty start aswell and the person with the best start was undoubtedly Nando Lonso.

[Captain Nemo]

Vettel is 10 kg lighter - the camel jockey has the advantage...

[raymondu999]

Doesn't mean anything. Vettel+car still weighs 640kg total. All drivers + their cars = 640kg.

[raymondu999]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/09/c ... is-season/

[strad]

short video of the drivers explaining how they set up for the start/launch
click photo for video