Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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olefud wrote:
As a generality, trail braking is a function of the ability to accelerate vs. the need to carry speed through the corner. Obviously acceleration is diminished out of a high speed corner.

Exactly, depending on the corner it may be beneficial or not

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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During the Belgian GP, while Lewis was consistently as quick or quicker than Nico, he was slower at La Source. He was told at least twice on the radio that Rosberg was braking earlier but carrying more speed through the turn. As Eau Rouge is now flat, your exit speed from La Source determines your speed all the way to Les Combes, almost half a lap away
Source: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/op ... -from-spa/
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JimClarkFan
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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raymondu999 wrote:
During the Belgian GP, while Lewis was consistently as quick or quicker than Nico, he was slower at La Source. He was told at least twice on the radio that Rosberg was braking earlier but carrying more speed through the turn. As Eau Rouge is now flat, your exit speed from La Source determines your speed all the way to Les Combes, almost half a lap away
Source: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/op ... -from-spa/
Reminds me of Jenson and Lewis in Turkey 2010 lol.

''You're braking to late there mate''
''No I'm not''

lol....

With respect to this weekend, was this said during quali or the race? or practice. Would be interesting to see if he did anything about it.

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SectorOne
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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I wonder if they told Rosberg he was slower everywhere else on track? :)
No but it´s great having two quick guys like that, learning from each other and fine-tuning the lap will benefit both from extracting everything from it.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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raymondu999
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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SectorOne wrote:I wonder if they told Rosberg he was slower everywhere else on track? :)
No but it´s great having two quick guys like that, learning from each other and fine-tuning the lap will benefit both from extracting everything from it.
More to the point, I think that perhaps it could've been something for Lewis to take on board, and gone even quicker
JimClarkFan wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:
During the Belgian GP, while Lewis was consistently as quick or quicker than Nico, he was slower at La Source. He was told at least twice on the radio that Rosberg was braking earlier but carrying more speed through the turn. As Eau Rouge is now flat, your exit speed from La Source determines your speed all the way to Les Combes, almost half a lap away
Source: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/op ... -from-spa/
Reminds me of Jenson and Lewis in Turkey 2010 lol.

''You're braking to late there mate''
''No I'm not''

lol....

With respect to this weekend, was this said during quali or the race? or practice. Would be interesting to see if he did anything about it.
Indeed it does. Turkey 2011 - Button kept getting a much better exit out of 9/10 than Hamilton. Goes to show that there are times when trail braking indeed is slower.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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I don't think Hamilton was trail braking through there....That is just a big assumption without video evidence.

Hamilton generally drives some turns slow on purpose to keep the tyres cooler for the tighter sectors. He mentioned this in China 2010.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on 28 Aug 2013, 20:17, edited 1 time in total.
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timbo
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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Guys, come on!
In F1 everyone trail brakes EVERY time.
Only the degree of how deep into the corner the brake is still on differs.

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raymondu999
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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timbo wrote:Guys, come on!
In F1 everyone trail brakes EVERY time.
Only the degree of how deep into the corner the brake is still on differs.
I don't think they trail brake to varying depths *in* the corner, rather they shift the whole corner - ie I think even if you took a late apex, you'd trail brake till 50% rotation, then power out
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timbo
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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raymondu999 wrote:
timbo wrote:Guys, come on!
In F1 everyone trail brakes EVERY time.
Only the degree of how deep into the corner the brake is still on differs.
I don't think they trail brake to varying depths *in* the corner, rather they shift the whole corner - ie I think even if you took a late apex, you'd trail brake till 50% rotation, then power out
No don't think so. Depends on the corner and desired rate of rotation.

Erunanethiel
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Joined: 26 Oct 2013, 10:17

Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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Andres125sx wrote:
olefud wrote:
As a generality, trail braking is a function of the ability to accelerate vs. the need to carry speed through the corner. Obviously acceleration is diminished out of a high speed corner.

Exactly, depending on the corner it may be beneficial or not
So which kind of corners is it benefical for and which kind it is not? Sorry I couldnt understand because of my English and there may be other people that couldnt understand too.
Thanks.

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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Erunanethiel wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
olefud wrote:
As a generality, trail braking is a function of the ability to accelerate vs. the need to carry speed through the corner. Obviously acceleration is diminished out of a high speed corner.

Exactly, depending on the corner it may be beneficial or not
So which kind of corners is it benefical for and which kind it is not? Sorry I couldnt understand because of my English and there may be other people that couldnt understand too.
Thanks.
On long corners it´s not beneficial. For trail braking you turn to face the inner kerbs sooner to be able to continue with the car straight (almost) and keep the foot on the brake longer (so you can brake later), but when you release the brake pedal and turn, you´re not on the outside, so your line throught the corner need to be thighter. This means you need to turn the wheel a little bit more so your min speed thought the corner is lower. If it´s a short corner and it´s just an moment, and you are on the throttle again, it´s beneficial because of the huge acceleration of F1 cars, but if it´s a long corner where you can´t hit the throttle that soon and need to keep the wheel turned some seconds, then lowering your min speed is not beneficial because you lose more time through the corner than you won braking a bit later

I hope it makes sense, english is not my native langueage either, and I struggle with these technical explanations :?

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theformula
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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Here's some analysis of Lewis Hamilton's turn in style from a while back:
uk.askmen.com/cars/news_150/158_news.html
Hamilton's blessed with an ability to make a car do pretty much anything he wants - Mark Hughes

timbo
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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theformula wrote:Here's some analysis of Lewis Hamilton's turn in style from a while back:
uk.askmen.com/cars/news_150/158_news.html
Well this bit spoils the rest of the article.
F1 drivers, tied to carbon brakes, are not supposed to play with the left-foot pedal. The macho thing is to jab it hard - on and off.
What a load of compost.

Lycoming
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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To take a larger portion of that quote:
... I'd bet my house that, just prior to the ultimate moment of steering load, Lewis gradually decreases the brake pedal pressure in a way that modern F1 drivers, tied to carbon brakes, are not supposed to play with the left-foot pedal. The macho thing is to jab it hard - on and off. Lewis, though, is different. Decrease, decrease... then steering load.
...but everybody does this... you simply cannot be an F1 driver if you're using the brakes as a binary input. If you don't trail brake in an F1 car, you go several seconds off the pace, wreck the tires, or both.

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SectorOne
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Re: Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

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It´s written by Peter Windsor as well so a bit of salt on that please.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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