Technology originated from F-1

[jenkF1]

Yes I know, the gurney is the endplate effectively that keeps the airflow attached. I was shocked by this as F1 cars first had wings with no gurneys, so how could this 50s thing come about when Dan Gurney invented them?

Wiki said he took the concept to F1 and modified it for front and rear wings.

"....recalled experiments conducted in the 1950s by certain racing teams with "spoilers" affixed to the rear of the bodywork to cancel lift. (At that level of development, the spoilers were not thought of as potential performance enhancers—merely devices to cancel out destabilizing and potentially deadly aerodynamic lift.) Gurney decided to try adding a "spoiler" to the trailing edge of the rear wing.[8] The device was fabricated and fitted in under an hour, but Unser's test laps with the modified wing turned in equally poor times. When Unser was able to speak to Gurney in confidence, he disclosed that the lap times with the new wing were slowed because it was now producing so much downforce that the car was understeering. All that was needed was to balance this by adding additional downforce in front.[9]

Unser realized the value of this breakthrough immediately and wanted to conceal it from the competition, including his brother Al. Not wanting to call attention to the devices, Gurney left them out in the open.[10] To conceal his true intent, Gurney deceived inquisitive competitors by telling them the blunted trailing edge was intended to prevent injury and damage when pushing the car by hand. Some copied the design, and some of them even “improved” it by pointing the flap downwards, which actually hurt performance.[11]"

[Just_a_fan]

I think its fair to say F1's advances in electronic micro manipulation of every aspect of performance has greatly benefitted road cars.

It would be nice to say that, yes. But is there any evidence that it has happened? Need to remember that F1 works to a set of rules that are extremely limiting where electronic control systems are concerned. This is likely to mean that the resultant systems are not as advanced as their roadcar cousins.

[Just_a_fan]

F1 changed the combustion chamber of choice from Bath-Tub Overhead, through Hemispherical 2 Valve and onto the current choice of the mass market - Narrow Angle 4 Valve Technology. This superior technology was concieved 50 years ago and reigns supreme today.

The first motorcar in the world to have an engine with two overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder was the 1912 Peugeot L76 Grand Prix race car. GP cars were the equivalent of pre war F1. So 4V DOHC is genuine GP technology.

That is stretching the definition of "dervied from F1" to it's maximum. And beyond.

It might be fair to say that it's GP tech (if one is being very generous) but GP is not F1.

F1 has not invented anything useful to cars as whole. It merely takes the work of others and refines it to suit the rules applied to a very small subset of "car"...

[WhiteBlue]

That is stretching the definition of "dervied from F1" to it's maximum. And beyond.

It might be fair to say that it's GP tech (if one is being very generous) but GP is not F1.

I disagree completely. Why do you think you can make a cut at 1950? What was different in 1936 for instance? Not much if you look at the race locations and the way the FiA ran the rules.

Pre F1 Grand Prix cars were often technologically leading the way for road cars. Particularly that old Peugeot was the grand father of hundreds of millions of road car engines that had 4-cylinder DOHC 4-valves.

[bdr529]

Yes I know, the gurney is the endplate effectively that keeps the airflow attached. I was shocked by this as F1 cars first had wings with no gurneys, so how could this 50s thing come about when Dan Gurney invented them?

It sounds like you are confused on who came up with what and when ??

In 1956, 22 year old engineer and amateur racing driver, Michel May came up with the idea of putting the wing on his car, for downforce.
you can read his story hear http://type550.com/racing/drivers/on-a- ... a-prayer/#
15 years latter Dan Gurney came up with the idea of putting a little right angled piece of metal along the trailing edge of the wing , essentially making Michel May's original idea more effective

[jamsbong]

F1 Flex front wings which is used in Ferrari 458 in the form of lips.

N2 gas for tires, although this is not really complicated/high tech.

I think traction control was improved a lot so that they are more than just a on/off mode when they were allowed in F1. That said, I reckon 4WD tech from Mitsubishi Evo is way more complex and interesting. And it came from WRC, not F1.

I think Safety helmet with neck support was used in F1 first before other motorsport adopted it.

Most F1 development is on Aero and aero is not important on road cars as road cars only travel up to speed limit of 100km/h and most of the time the average speed is 30+km/h in busy traffic. The main focus for car development these days is safety, cost reduction, and fuel efficiency.

[timbo]

I think Safety helmet with neck support was used in F1 first before other motorsport adopted it.

You mean HANS? If so, than definitely no, it came from USA, NASCAR/Indy adopted it first.

[Jeffsvilleusa]

this is a real eye-opener of a thread!

[Jersey Tom]

Speaking of other things to have come from the US / IndyCar to F1... I believe the current style of wheel nut falls into that category. Perhaps also the use of center/3rd springs.

[Just_a_fan]

That is stretching the definition of "dervied from F1" to it's maximum. And beyond.

It might be fair to say that it's GP tech (if one is being very generous) but GP is not F1.

I disagree completely. Why do you think you can make a cut at 1950?

Because that is when the F1 championship started. The whole point of this thread is about tech that went from F1 to other vehicles. Before 1950 there was no F1 so that is why the cut off happens in 1950. True, one might argue that F1 cars existed in 1947 but the championship didn't exist until 1950.

Really, it's not difficult to understand.

Now, if you want to ask the question: "what technology has started in racing cars and then moved to non-racing cars?" your point about the 1930s GP cars would be totally valid.

F1 is not a place that invents tech: it's a place that fine tunes existing tech/ideas in a very short time frame for a very specific purpose. I know (from other threads) that you want F1 to lead the development of road car relevant stuff but it hasn't happened in the last 60 years and is unlikley to do so in the future.

[WhiteBlue]

We are talking about a historical issue here. While it is true that GP racing has lost some of its technological pace making role in Formula 1 times which it had historically before 1950 it is narrow minded to disregard the roots of F1. You do not see the full perspective and you jump to conclusions that are not valid if you take a wider view. Nobody wants to replicate the conditions of the thirties, but the role of automotive brands in that time was splendid. I would not mind if it would come back.

[Just_a_fan]

@WB

I don't necessarily disagree with your position regarding technical developments in the 30s and how nice it would be to see that again. And I agree that we must remember history (or be doomed to repeat it, as they say). But the truth is that F1 never has, and probably never will, provide that technical development function.

One of the main reasons being that the rules prevent it from happening. The engines are so heavily regulated as to make any meaningful developments impossible.

[piast9]

How about the inerters and their use in the suspension?

[Gridlock]

OK, the patent for fluid inerters credits LRGP and their engineer Robin Tuluie as inventors, so if these make it into common usage outside of racing then that counts, perhaps the first example yet. But I think they will remain fairly limited to high end race cars.

[Caito]

If it goes somewhere outside F1 it should be taken into account, even if it's still racing.

As with most technology originated from planes.. it's still remains in other planes. Though planes are more probably "daily life" than F1.

Isn't there a lot of F1 originated stuff in other categories in motorsport?