Maldonado sponsorship for Williams

[Shrieker]

I can't see Venezuela among them, and I can't remember Venezuela bombing civilians in a country which is 10.000 km away.

To sum it up, Chavez is a prick, but compared to each and every president, PM, king and queen of the countries listed above, he is an amateur in crime. To avoid being misunderstood, I'm not pointing finger at people, citizens of those nations, I'm pointing it at rulers only, the same way you do with Chavez.

It's so funny to listen someone from USA talking about moral and dictators and all that ---.

You spend [i don't know how many] billions in your army and weapons, but you have people that cannot pay for medical services and die. Where in countries that you say are governed by dictators, they're FREE.

You have Guantanamo.
You think you're the police of the world.
You invade countries just because you tought (or invented a story) that they were making nuclear weapons (that you have).
You supported dictators in the past. Argentina is an example.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

Sorry mate but you( rather @xpensive than you, sorry) had it coming. The "machine" that is "the United States" doesn't want a "socialist like country" in South America, so the they're pumping propaganda through their media saying basically "Chavez is like Hitler" when the dictators of the NATO countries are much closer to being Hitler judging by their actions. It seems you've jumped on the bandwagon too, but in all honesty i can't blame you at all. The people in charge over there know the tricks of the trade very well.


So basically, if you're calling Williams "blah blah" just because they're taking money from Chavez, you should open your eyes and see that many of the "world leaders" are in much deeper s**t than Chavez is. That's the crux of the matter.

[bhallg2k]

I'd urge you to look over my (damn civil) exchange with xpensive again, because you've totally misread it. Or just missed it altogether.

(Some Cliff's Notes you might find helpful: He's from Sweden, and I'm from the States. He has (not completely baseless) concerns about Chavez; I don't.)

The only parts of this discussion that are problematic are the ones where overreaching generalizations are made by those without any firsthand knowledge about what they're generalizing. That's taking the easy way out.

[ringo]

I think this needs perspective.

Basically America was happy to let Venezuela continue its corrupt ways, turning a blind eye to injustices that occurred prior to Chaves democratic appointment.
The poor were neglected for too long, and they are the swing vote in Venezuela.

So when Chaves military coup failed, he was elevated into the public eye as a romantic rebel leader similar to that of Che Guevara. People liked him.
Since his appointment 2 things have happened very quickly.

1.The country has grown richer.
2.Its infrastructure was near totally rebuilt were possible. He introduced massive social spending that has expanded health and education programs. It is said to be of very high standard. He has also openly confronts the United States, which he describes as a decadent empire.
Since taking office, Chávez has sold oil to Cuba - a longtime adversary of the United States - and resisted US plans to stop narcotics trafficking in nearby Colombia. He also helped guerrilla forces in neighboring countries. Over the years, Chavez has threatened to stop supplying oil to the United States if there is another attempt to remove him from power. He did, however, donate heating oil to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita, which destroyed numerous fuel processing facilities.

He isnt perfect, and his people grow tiresome. He is probably also reaping the benefits of the current oil price. But at least he is investing in the country.
Saddam Hussein or Ahmedinejad this guy is not. America would like you to think so, but he is a marked step down from the above.

Unsavoury but an improvement on what preceded him.

Soryy mods, couldn't let this by. The only spending Chavez does is on his decadent lifestyle.He also suppressed the vote of "his people" when they tried to vote him out,

I disagree with you. Some of you just simply aren't in a situation where u can see what is the reality. CNN and BBC is like theater, it takes an idea and it fabricates it's own agenda. Chavez does a lot of good stuff for the region, don't mind his own country.

[ringo]

I think this is way off topic, can not we just close the thread.
People talk about Venzuela is being bad, next thing you know somebody say USA is bad etc.

Haters gonna HATE but let the teams do whatever they want to get their money from.
I mean McLaren and Ferrari gets oil from Exxon and Shell and they have caused a lot of damages.

Yep.

Let Pastor be. He's getting points this year.

[Pierce89]

This is Hugo Chavez;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Kzbo7tNLg

This is George Bush;




It's so funny to listen someone from USA talking about moral and dictators and all that ---.

You spend [i don't know how many] billions in your army and weapons, but you have people that cannot pay for medical services and die. Where in countries that you say are governed by dictators, they're FREE.

You have Guantanamo.
You think you're the police of the world.
You invade countries just because you tought (or invented a story) that they were making nuclear weapons (that you have).
You supported dictators in the past. Argentina is an example.

I haven't spent billions on anything
I don't own an prisons in Cuba
I've never invaded another country
I've never supported a dictator

Your post is nothing more than baseless vitriol against people you don't know ANYTHING about.
Yet, you feel qualified to attack us because of where we live.

BTW I know people who left Venezuela because they felt they were anything but free and their lives were in danger for speaking out. People in the U.S. speak out against our government LITERALLY every day without being put in danger. But whatever, you've already judged me without meeting me

[Shrieker]

@bhallg2k,

My scathing attack was maybe a little uncalled for. Apologies. The bottom line is, F1 teams are getting money from various sources and much of it is probably tainted. No use in pointing the finger to x/y/z. If only one digs deep enough...

How about a team ownership then? Bahrain owns a full 50% of McLaren, I believe - now there's a bit of a dilemma for their fans.

There you go.

Your post is nothing more than baseless vitriol against people you don't know ANYTHING about.
Yet, you feel qualified to attack us because of where we live.

Not that you'd give a dam anyway, but here's what the founder of the Turkish Republic had said back in the day:

"Every nation in the world shares the responsibility of their government's actions that they tolerate".

[xpensive]

I beg to differ, this will never go away, the team that had the guts to fire Nigel Manell and call Damon Hill a prat,
has now sold themselves for twelve silverdollars.

When I was at university, we did a study on Williams, as they were the "engineering team", where Nelson and Nico's dad were simlply chauffeurs.

Heck, we cried when Carlos left, but drivers came and went, from Daly to JV, but then suddenly, with the departure of BMW,
everything turned south why I'm burning all of my Williams merchandise.

[bhallg2k]

I'm an American, and I'm used to the incredibly strange mixture of both adulation and scorn heaped upon my country. It is what it is.

(I must admit, however, that I do cringe from time to time when a compatriot who hasn't quite adjusted to that dichotomy reacts a bit out of turn to any criticism leveled against the U.S. of A.)

And your point about most money trails being far from the Yellow Brick Road, as it were, is precisely the point I've been conveying. Sadly, we don't live anymore in an era of no exceptions black and white, right and wrong. Everything is just "different" now.

[xpensive]

Americans come in different shapes and forms I have learned, my favourite kind is the one calling a spade a spade,
while not fearing losing their daytime job.

[mx_tifoso]

There's too much political discussion to be in this section, let alone this forum. Locked until further notice.