Button holding up Hamilton

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JimClarkFan
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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internetf1fan wrote:So if the decision to get Button on to new tyres was the correct one, why was this information not passed on to Hamilton's side of the garage? You say Button has a brians so why is McLaren not sharing that information with Hamilton's side? On the other hand, they seem to be perfectly happy recently giving away Hamilton's car set-up to help Button.
Do you understand how an F1 teams works...

The two sides of the garage work semi independently from one another come the race weekend, and they make judgement calls based on what the driver in the cockpit is saying and on the data that they as a team get, which they incidently share. Indeed I believe Mclaren has a very open policy on sharing information between both sides of the garage.

There is no doubt in my mind that Lewis' side of the garage would have observed that Alonso, Button etc were setting faster lap times on new tyres, and even if they didn't realise this in time they absolutely would have had exactly the same information at their disposal as Alonso and Button did when they came into pit. Therefore the responsibility for making the decision of coming into the pits and getting those new tyres on lies with Hamilton's race engineer, and Hamilton himself as a driver along with the information he is giving back to the guys on the pit wall.

Button has no direct influence on how Hamilton sets up or runs his race, or indeed any impact on the decisions made by the other side of the garage. The decision to leave Hamilton out of the track was taken by Hamilton's side of the garage and his alone, they had the same information at their disposal as Jensen, the latter made the right call and the former did not. Jensen is simply better than Lewis at using data to make decisions during the race than Lewis, this something which is backed up Jensen's history of making great decision when it comes to tyre strategy (like I said Jensen has the brain).

There is no logical reason to willfully and knowingly inhibit Hamilton's performance from the team, he is their best driver at the moment, the only one with any kind of chance of winning the F1 title to my mind, and the only driver in their team that has been delivering somewhat consistent performances. What you are suggesting makes no sense in a sport which is results driven! Favoritism of the kind you are talking about, i.e. asking the lead driver to make concessions in both quali and during the race to your second driver doesn't make sense, especially when Lewis has double the points of Jensen.

It does not get anymore complicated than that no matter how you try and twist it. But you need to understand being an F1 driver is more than just being able to drive the car fast, it is about development, race craft, decision making, building/leading a team and data interpretation.

And at the end of you post, you conclude by blaming the team, which confuses me because that is exactly my point as well so I don't understand where we're disagreeing. Like I said again, back in 2008 where McLaren were 100% behind HAmilton he gave them their first WDC in a decade even when everything seemed to be going against him. McLaren's focus on Jenson is hurting McLaren's chances badly.
This is laughable - you first were suggesting that Button was being favoured and now you are moaning that the problem is the team don't have a favourite? Which is it?

Alright I'll play devils advocate.
Name one situation where a direct order from the Mclaren team would have helped Lewis out point Jensen when Lewis was ahead of Jensen in the championship? There are no such situations, meaning that even if team orders had existed it would not have benefited Hamilton anyway.

What you are suggesting makes no sense.

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Shrieker
13
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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All the emphasis should be on Lewis when Button isn't delivering, end of story. Look at Ferrari.
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Pup
Pup
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Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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Mr. Clark Fan, you do realize that Mr. Internet F1 Fan makes these posts pretty much every time Hamilton doesn't win or get pole, yes? He's got a 50% success rate of getting his topics locked (which is actually quite impressive now that I think about it).

Posting a 500-word rebuttal is the very definition of futility. But two? That's something else entirely.

:P

JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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Pup wrote:Mr. Clark Fan, you do realize that Mr. Internet F1 Fan makes these posts pretty much every time Hamilton doesn't win or get pole, yes? He's got a 50% success rate of getting his topics locked (which is actually quite impressive now that I think about it).

Posting a 500-word rebuttal is the very definition of futility. But two? That's something else entirely.

:P
I dun goofed.

Thanks for the heads up!

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PlatinumZealot
550
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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So what happened to Button's decision making skills in Canada?
Didn't you see that Hamilton figured out that Alonso and vettel were doing the one stop even when the team did not? He is obviously an intelligent driver. Aki Hinsta has rated him as one of the fastest thinkers, and technical minded. All the "dumb" mistake he has made were mostly in trusting the team - something that a driver has to do sometimes - see Alonso Abu Dhabi 2010.
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JimClarkFan
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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n smikle wrote:So what happened to Button's driving skills in Canada?
Didn't you see that Hamilton figured out that Alonso and vettel were doing the one stop even when the team did not? He is obviously an intelligent driver. Aki Hinsta has rated him as one of the fastest thinkers, and technical minded. All the "dumb" mistake he has made were mostly in trusting the team - something that a driver has to do sometimes - see Alonso Abu Dhabi 2010.
Fixed that for you.
It's not like he had any important decisions to make all the way back down there.

And I think Aki Hinsta is straight up wrong. Hamilton needs to take greater ownership of his decisions, although I will admit earlier in his career he seemed a lot more capable.

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flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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n smikle wrote:So what happened to Button's decision making skills in Canada?
Didn't you see that Hamilton figured out that Alonso and vettel were doing the one stop even when the team did not? He is obviously an intelligent driver. Aki Hinsta has rated him as one of the fastest thinkers, and technical minded. All the "dumb" mistake he has made were mostly in trusting the team - something that a driver has to do sometimes - see Alonso Abu Dhabi 2010.
his team keep breaking the front wing off the car?

DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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internetf1fan wrote:Hmm... I wonder what's important. Your respect, or a championship (like RBR last year for example). McLaren should realise that they are competiting in a multimillion business.
I could not agree more. But the funny thing is that at season's end Bernie pays out millions and millions to each team based on the points and standing in the Constructors' Championship. So maybe it's the correct thing to allow each driver to get the most out of each race, let them race their own strategy as long as they do not commit the cardinal rule, not to take each other out.

As you said, it's all about the money.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

internetf1fan
0
Joined: 19 May 2010, 14:50

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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So McLaren lost so may points for Hamilton at the start of the season through pit mistakes and now it's coming back to bite their ass. Chances of WDC and WCC completely lost. Well done McLaren.

internetf1fan
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Joined: 19 May 2010, 14:50

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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And when Hamilton's engine blows up in upcoming races, I am sure McLaren will be happy that they sent out Hamilton out with absolutely no chances of scoring any points.

internetf1fan
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Joined: 19 May 2010, 14:50

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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I also like how McLaren actually used the Radio to tell Hamilton to let Button go, while they did no such thing in the previous race. I also like how McLaren are telling Hamilton to burn up his tyres to help Button.

internetf1fan
0
Joined: 19 May 2010, 14:50

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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Nice. They force him to go out, they force him to burn his tires and use up his engine and gearbox and then they retire him.

LionKing
4
Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 22:03

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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internetf1fan wrote:I also like how McLaren actually used the Radio to tell Hamilton to let Button go, while they did no such thing in the previous race. I also like how McLaren are telling Hamilton to burn up his tyres to help Button.
The difference is Hamilton was going a lap down :)

example
-3
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 22:07

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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Have we ever seen Button covering for Hamilton? I haven't.

JimClarkFan
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Button holding up Hamilton

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I'm done with this thread I think.

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