Run-Off Area Alternatives

[flynfrog]

not sure how using UHMWPE would make a difference?
Explain please.

if you step a Tire on it you spin

[strad]

Ah..I understand.. Because it has a low coefficient of friction... it's slippery.
Ya mighta said that.
Thanks though.

[WALL_ZACK]

I'm not sure if it's been proposed yet, but rather than a slippery/softer surface thats's crap for acceleration, how about a contoured hard surface designed to upset the balance of the car but which still gives good friction for braking.

Perhaps a high friction washboard type Tarmac surface extending a couple of meters from the back of the kerb running the whole perimeter of the corner with peaks and troughs of varying heights/spacings/directions. Not sure if it would work, but the idea would set up suspension oscillations too complex and difficult to deal with without slowing down. You could then have the normal Tarmac beyond that.

It'd suck for bikes, and it'd only be worth doing on new or refurbished tracks, but it might do the job

Alternatively, just keep the kerbs and runoff wet or put styrofoam blocks that will take out a wing just outside the kerbs and the drivers will keep well away.

[strad]

or put styrofoam blocks that will take out a wing just outside the kerbs and the drivers will keep well away.

I'd say great except we would spend half the race replacing them and cleaning up Styrofoam.

[WaikeCU]

[autogyro]

Interesting. By 'cost', what are we talking here? Millions, tens of millions, thousands? Because in F1 'cost' seems, fluid.

No amounts were discussed at the time.

But you must of had an idea. If the idea was rejected based on cost - yet costs were not discussed... that makes sense actually. Why have all the facts before making a decision?

The material had to be flexible and strong enough to withstand high energy without having to be replaced after a number of uses. It also had to cover very large areas.
It was a similar material to Kevlar, so very expensive.
It worked though.

[JimClarkFan]

Bouncy castles... whenever a car runs off it will enter a bouncy castle area, the bouncy castle will make sure the car and driver are uninjured by bouncing them around until they come to a harmless stop. However when they return to the track the driver and the car will be dressed up in a clown suit with speakers attached to the radiator which will play clown music as it navigates the circuit, and balloons attached to the exhaust which will blow up using the exhaust gas - all this would obviously have a drag penalty. Every time the camera then pans to the car and driver in question after its off road excursion, confetti and happy horns will blow over the tv coverage.

Edit - WaikeCU has the right idea lol

[autogyro]

Bouncy castles... whenever a car runs off it will enter a bouncy castle area, the bouncy castle will make sure the car and driver are uninjured by bouncing them around until they come to a harmless stop. However when they return to the track the driver and the car will be dressed up in a clown suit with speakers attached to the radiator which will play clown music as it navigates the circuit, and balloons attached to the exhaust which will blow up using the exhaust gas - all this would obviously have a drag penalty. Every time the camera then pans to the car and driver in question after its off road excursion, confetti and happy horns will blow over the tv coverage.

Edit - WaikeCU has the right idea lol

Yes that would work. Unfortunately it would block the spectators view.
I also think the clown should have the face of Bernie Eclestone after all the poor old fellow has definitely lost his way in F1.

[strad]

I just ask that they actually enforce this rule for real:

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

.

I am also wondering, if all the coaching and advice over the radio doesn't in some way break this rule:

20.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided

Driver used to have to make his own decisions.

[FoxHound]

I think it's no different to telling a driver when to pit or to change settings on his steering wheel.

In terminology, unaided can me a variety of things which boil down to....yup...interpretation.
I think, as I believe you are referring to, the Rosberg case of asking for assistance. I'd assume that he is looking for some guidance as to where he is losing time to the sister car.

[strad]

Actually I wasn't talking about Nico in practice, that's fine. But during the race they should have to hoof it on their own.
It was actually kind of tongue in cheek. I'd settle for them staying on track or being punished. Either by the rules and stewards or with Run-Off Area Alternatives that would do the punishing.

[Ciro Pabón]

You don't need induction loops to detect and punish cars that go out of the track if you have cars with a GPS on board.

You know where the car is at all times.

On top of that there are like a gazillion cameras. Notice stewards take like 2/10ths of a second to reach a veredict on trajectories these days.

If I am afraid of something (and we have nothing to fear) is not of robotized drivers but of robotized stewards.



People talks about sophisticated (?) ways to design run off areas. There is no sophistication in engineering, at least that I know, there is procedures... The current way to calculate run off areas is to calculate the envelope of trajectories.

Engineering: 50% math, 50% duct tape, 10% panache


As for the bouncy castle idea, it's a very good one, JimClarkFan.

I believe it can be improved: instead of using bouncy castles around the track (expensive distribution of solution) the car itself could be a bouncy castle (concentration of solution).



Moreover, there is no need for clown music: it´s already been thought of.

We have V6's sound for that.

As for Nico being punished, there is no need either, dear Strad (miss you, man! really... good to coincide).

Nico´s being punished all the time: Hamilton is his team mate, that's punishment more than enough, poor soul, bless him.

Oh, joy. Way more than enough.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Silverstone used to do it right:-



Strips of grass between the track and the run off, with small "exits" allowing you to rejoin the track safely.



More recently they replaced the real grass with the fake stuff, which created the issues seen this year.

[SiLo]

The Silverstone idea looks great. Some grass so you definitely lose time going off, but tarmac straight after in case you need to slow down quick, then a small amount of gravel near the barriers to catch stray pieces of car and to really ruin the race if you make a big enough mistake.

[beelsebob]

You don't need induction loops to detect and punish cars that go out of the track if you have cars with a GPS on board.

Just No. GPS is not that accurate.

It's maximumaccuracy when it has good signal is about 50cm. That's no where near enough to tell the difference between a car fully off the track, or a car still touching the white lines.

In real life, it's accuracy is closer to 5m, which means that for a car dead centre on the track, you could get GPS telling you its off the track in either direction.