Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

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Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:23 pm

Rory Byrne and Michael Schumacher were the duo that made Ferrari what it was.
Period.

Ross Brawn had nothing to do with it.
JEan Todt was the administrator that brought every thing together. He created the environment whereby the F1 team was kept in a bubble outside of the control of the Board and FIAT and the associated politics.

Byrne realised that in Schumacher he had a driver who could translate his car in winning cars. His philosophy of a fast car was one that was particularly hard to drive i.e. edgy and stiff in front to keep the aerodynamics working.

At Mercedes Brawn and Schumacher did not work. Why?
No designer able to build a car that Schumacher could push without hurting the tyres.

AS for Hamilton, I think he and Mercedes deserve each other. A healthy dose of humility is needed across the GP team and their new driver.
Raptor22
 
Joined: 7 Apr 2009


Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:34 pm

Everyday i laugh my ass of at these sort of statements.

His --- stinks just as bad as Vettel´s, Alonso´s, Hamilton´s, Kimi´s etc.
He´s not some magical prophet that can make cars go quick and only he can make them quick.

Any of the above, if put in the exact same position would pull out the exact same results.

EDIT: Weirdo posted inbetween but it applies to him as well.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."
Nando
 
Joined: 10 Mar 2012

Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:53 pm

Nando wrote:Everyday i laugh my ass of at these sort of statements.

His --- stinks just as bad as Vettel´s, Alonso´s, Hamilton´s, Kimi´s etc.
He´s not some magical prophet that can make cars go quick and only he can make them quick.

Any of the above, if put in the exact same position would pull out the exact same results.

EDIT: Weirdo posted inbetween but it applies to him as well.


:lol:

+1
The speed of Ayrton Senna.
The mind of Alain Prost.
The dedication of Michael Schumacher.
The determination of Alex Zanardi.
Donuts
 
Joined: 1 Jun 2010

Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:22 pm

For the next three years I fear this season now will be the closest he will come to a Championship ,i´m afraid.No sign of MGP finding a magic bullet.
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:32 pm

Same can be said for Mclaren. If they don´t pull this off this year then i don´t see them winning anything in the near future.
With a theoretically weaker driver line-up as well.

Unless of course, all other teams fail to show in AUS.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."
Nando
 
Joined: 10 Mar 2012

Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:22 pm

we might have another tight championship next year, but i fear that with the rules changing in 2014 it will spread the grid apart again and we may end up with the same team dominating 1 or two seasons.

its 2014 onwards i think Hamilton is looking at here. I remember reading that teams are looking at 2014 ideas now, even though its just small numbers of staff. Perhaps Hamilton knows what was happening at mclaren and was shown mercedes. I don't think Mercedes would have promised him success next year. But i think 2014 and beyond was sold to him. Perhaps they also told him mclaren won't be getting work spec new engines anymore

Theres more to why Hamilton left than meets the eye. I don't think its down to money and commercial freedom. If its about winning like Hamilton said, his winning at mclaren so mercedes must have really had something to sell him - what ever it was it was good enough for Hamilton to turn his back on 14 years of partnership.

People might think it was a mistake, we'll see. Mercedes aren't going to come out and reveal what they have shown/told him up there sleeve.
astracrazy
 
Joined: 4 Mar 2009

Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:46 pm

I didn't think he would bite the bullet and take the long view !
I wonder whether if mercedes were waiting to secure his signature before signing on for the long term and getting rid of schu...a huge step for them

now they have arguably the strongest technical team in F1 and have signed the fastest driver in F1 ...to quote alonso the only driver capable of winning in less than the best car

expect an improvement in 2013 , and top of the pile in 2014 for both championships
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
lebesset
 
Joined: 6 Aug 2008

Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:08 pm

look there seems some folks on this who seem to want to give ROSS BRAWN all the credit for SCHUMIS ferrari dominance . The main guy who should get the praise is Mr Rory Byrne that is a fact as he was the chief car designer. As Mr Johnny Herbert said a couple weeks ago you can have the best engine but if you dont have the chassis you wont win nothing and he said this in participation of lewis hamiltons move
JACKSONVILLE
 
Joined: 29 Jul 2012

Post Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:03 pm

It's not just one person/component.

Take Ferrari out of the equation and you would end up with Byrne in Thailand.
Everyone pulled their part in the Ferrari dynasty.

Schumi driving
Ferrari supplied the money/Fiorano
Brawn the strategy
Byrne the car design
Todt keeping everything in check

Mind you without Ferrari's grumpyness we would have most likely seen BMW Williams/Montoya snatch at least one title.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."
Nando
 
Joined: 10 Mar 2012

Post Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:43 am

And let's look at what Mercedes has:

Hamilton - I would consider this a positive given his pace, without getting into a debate on whether he is better than Schumacher in his peak or whether he can build a team around him.

Mercedes - I am not sure if Mercedes will fund this team to the same level as Ferrari did or whether this is possible or would have the same benefits given the RRA and testing restrictions. There is certainly a correlation between a larger budget and level of success; HOWEVER, Honda is a rather egregious example of having consistently broken this correlation. And as far as one can see, things do not seem to have changed much in terms of management since the Honda days.

Elliot, Costa and Willis - Even their combined might is nowhere near Byrne's legacy (even when giving due credit to Costa as Byrne's deputy at Ferrari during the dominant days). The ongoing development and the latest Singapore updates to the W03 certainly do not suggest otherwise. But I guess the truest test would be the W04.

Brawn the strategist - One would be forced to assume that age has caught up with him given the strategy calls at Mercedes (assuming he has indeed been behind those calls). So it's a walkover for Ferrari Brawn over Mercedes Brawn.

Brawn the TP and Mercedes race team management overall - Cant even be mentioned in the same sentence with Todt. So far, the management decisions at Mercedes and their top management structure has not made any sense whatsoever (including the latest Lauda hire). The decisions have been so counterintutive that had it produced results, it would have been heralded as a new paradigm in management theory :lol: And the results so far dont suggest any new paradigm!
phillippe
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2009

Post Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:01 am

I liken Mercedes to a black hole, sucking in the universes outcasts. Black holes tend to fall in on themselves further until their mass is too great and they explode, creating a new universe.....or so one of the theories goes....
Raptor22
 
Joined: 7 Apr 2009

Post Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:15 am

At the moment, 3 wins is all Mercedes would need to deliver for 2013. I don't see it as a huge stretch. 8)
OppositeLock
 
Joined: 24 Sep 2012

Post Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:13 am

if you consider that achieving 3 wins this year is a monumental feat and has placed those who have achieved it at the front of the pack race for the WDC then I would say that 3 wins for Merc next year is impossible.
They development form is too slow. Their ideas are good but performance enhancing stuff is mediocre at best.
Present development pace has them around 6 months -9months behind the top teams.
DDRS has been a spectacular failure with no one except Lotus chasing that blind alley.
The blind alley the previous season was the short wheelbase...

Next years blind alley?
Raptor22
 
Joined: 7 Apr 2009

Post Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:21 am

Raptor22 wrote:if you consider that achieving 3 wins this year is a monumental feat and has placed those who have achieved it at the front of the pack race for the WDC then I would say that 3 wins for Merc next year is impossible.
They development form is too slow. Their ideas are good but performance enhancing stuff is mediocre at best.
Present development pace has them around 6 months -9months behind the top teams.


Perhaps. But how much of a factor have the tyres been this year? The tyres have been a major factor this year - 7 different winners in the first 7 GPs. How quick would the Mercedes have been if they hadn't fallen over the tyres? To me it seems Mercedes might have been in a much stronger position if it weren't for them (and they were classed as the team to watch out for before 2012 started). IMO - the tyres this year have distorted the picture, all to the disadvantage of Mercedes. Mercedes seems like the one team this year who has the most trouble dealing with them.

It must be difficult for Mercedes to push forward this year if they're still stuck on getting the tyres to last...
Phil
 
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Location: Switzerland

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