2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Nando
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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shelly wrote:Ex redbull and ferrari (and user of this forum) rodi basso has just started an interesting collaboration with italian blogf1.it.
Sadly it is in italian but with google translate is still readable:
http://www.blogf1.it/2013/03/05/pre-sea ... -dai-test/
Very interesting, thanks!
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raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Last edited by raymondu999 on 07 Mar 2013, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Phil
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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kilcoo316 wrote:
Mika1 wrote:It a big difference between Luc Bigois or Aldo Costa, Bell and Elliot designing the car.
Yep - but I don't think I can emphasis enough the pace you need to develop at just to stick with the top guys, never mind close in on them.
Sorry that I keep quoting you, as I actually agree with most of what you are saying. I just wanted to mention, that I think there is a small distinction to be made with performance gained from 2012 to 2013. One gain will be the quicker tyres, which will most likely benefit all teams. Then there is the gain that a team makes by making their car more efficient, finding better ways to extract performance by learning/understanding their last car - which IMO is the angle that we are discussing here in regards to Mercedes vs the top-teams.

I still think that given that the rules between 2012 and 2013 are largely the same - that the gain a team will make by making their car more efficient will be smaller than when you have big design and rule changes. If we had identical rules year upon year, the rate of performance increase would likely become smaller year by year, simply because as you reach full efficiency, gains become increasingly difficult. It's probably easier to get your car from say 80% efficient to 90%, than from 90% to 95%. By this logic, I think it's increasingly more difficult for top-teams to gain over their last year, than it would be for a team like Mercedes, whos car was a whole lot less efficient to beginn with, to close the gap.

Of course, even if they have closed the gap, they might still be a bit behind - but a difference in efficiency (in absolute terms) might be equalled out on race day by driver form, car being better set-up to track conditions, a bit of luck of how qualifying/race turns out, how the tyres perform (or how close car/driver can get the tyres into optimum conditions/temperature) etc. The question is how far have they closed their gap?

I really hope they have closed the gap enough for it to be marginal come race-weekend, though I too have my doubts. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they were 0.3 seconds behind in qualifying and I'm a bit worried that the tyres will cause a bit of a lottery like last year again and be a bigger influence to the teams overall performance than the cars absolute speed. Melbourne can't come soon enough!
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Vasconia
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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shelly wrote:Ex redbull and ferrari (and user of this forum) rodi basso has just started an interesting collaboration with italian blogf1.it.
Sadly it is in italian but with google translate is still readable:
http://www.blogf1.it/2013/03/05/pre-sea ... -dai-test/
Another analysis, and once again Mercedes appears in the top, perhaps this time it will be true, if this is real this championshipt will be total war.

Anyway Melbourne is not the best circuit to clarify the positions in the field but at least we will see which car are worse with tyre degradation.

Mika1
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Vasconia wrote:
shelly wrote:Ex redbull and ferrari (and user of this forum) rodi basso has just started an interesting collaboration with italian blogf1.it.
Sadly it is in italian but with google translate is still readable:
http://www.blogf1.it/2013/03/05/pre-sea ... -dai-test/
Another analysis, and once again Mercedes appears in the top, perhaps this time it will be true, if this is real this championshipt will be total war.

Anyway Melbourne is not the best circuit to clarify the positions in the field but at least we will see which car are worse with tyre degradation.
I am very happy with the positive comments of all the observers and they have definitely improved their car, but it's better to be realistic. We will know soon what the situation is.
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Shrieker
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Mercedes won't be at the level of Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull. If Lotus are a tad behind those 3, then Merc might be able to compete with Lotus. Others are just bigging Merc up to make them look bad.
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Maelstrom
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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I dunno about the WDC but i'm thinking that this year RBR might not find it so easy to win the WCC.

The best driver line up of the teams so far (according to only my personal opinion) would be Merc with Rosberg and Hamilton. Both very aggressive and competetive drivers. I don't see them winning the WCC, but they have a decent shot at 3rd.

Second best driver line up might be a tie with Ferrari and Red Bull. I think this is a year Massa really needs to perform. If he does then Ferrari have a good chance at the WCC. I'm never too sure about what Webber will do. But I don't rate him as high as the others.

I think Lotus would be number 4, purely because Grosjean is a wild cannon. Mclaren would be no. 5. Ofcourse, Perez and Button might surprise us all, but I have a feeling Perez might need some time to settle into his new boots and Button genereally is very fussy about having the car just right. This might work against them.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Shrieker wrote:Mercedes won't be at the level of Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull. If Lotus are a tad behind those 3, then Merc might be able to compete with Lotus. Others are just bigging Merc up to make them look bad.
The logic says that it is almost imposible to close a gap of 2 seconds in only a few months, when the rules dont change so much and when the top teams have obviously improved their car too. But, the WO3 seemed to have a potential speed only ruined by a very poor develoment and tyre degradation, if both factors have been solved perhaps we could see a miracle(though I have big doubts).

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dren
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Vasconia wrote:The logic says that it is almost imposible to close a gap of 2 seconds in only a few months, when the rules dont change so much and when the top teams have obviously improved their car too. But, the WO3 seemed to have a potential speed only ruined by a very poor develoment and tyre degradation, if both factors have been solved perhaps we could see a miracle(though I have big doubts).
Bob Bell stated in Racecar Engineering that they expected the coanda exhausts to be banned so they didn't go down that path initially. They also had the tire issues as well. They had to upgrade the windtunnel...but I think they knew they were already so far behind the ball that they went ahead and did the upgrade.

The W04 is the real deal at the moment. I fully expect Hamilton and Nico to challenge for the pole. I hope they can keep up development work.
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bonjon1979
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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dren wrote:
Vasconia wrote:The logic says that it is almost imposible to close a gap of 2 seconds in only a few months, when the rules dont change so much and when the top teams have obviously improved their car too. But, the WO3 seemed to have a potential speed only ruined by a very poor develoment and tyre degradation, if both factors have been solved perhaps we could see a miracle(though I have big doubts).
Bob Bell stated in Racecar Engineering that they expected the coanda exhausts to be banned so they didn't go down that path initially. They also had the tire issues as well. They had to upgrade the windtunnel...but I think they knew they were already so far behind the ball that they went ahead and did the upgrade.

The W04 is the real deal at the moment. I fully expect Hamilton and Nico to challenge for the pole. I hope they can keep up development work.
Especially as Albert park should suit the Merc more than other tracks. There's perhaps one section of the track where downforce really matters are from turns 11 - 14. The rest is all about traction, mechanical grip and acceleration where the WO4 seems to excel. Turn 5 used to sort the men from the boys with regard to downforce but the cars have come on so much it's easy flat for almost all teams during qualifying. Malaysia might be a rude awakening for Merc though...

OppositeLock
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Vasconia wrote:
Shrieker wrote:Mercedes won't be at the level of Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull. If Lotus are a tad behind those 3, then Merc might be able to compete with Lotus. Others are just bigging Merc up to make them look bad.
The logic says that it is almost imposible to close a gap of 2 seconds in only a few months, when the rules dont change so much and when the top teams have obviously improved their car too. But, the WO3 seemed to have a potential speed only ruined by a very poor develoment and tyre degradation, if both factors have been solved perhaps we could see a miracle(though I have big doubts).
:idea: People are confusing the way Mercedes started the season with how they finished the season. They won China and were on the podium at Monaco. They started on par with the top teams. They hit a dead end with their development of the W03 (double drs) ](*,) and were also upgrading their wind tunnel. The winter testing shows that the Mercedes W04 is potentially back on par with the top teams as far as tire degradation and pace. The development race is yet to be seen. :| It isn't impossible to close a gap of 2 seconds as Brawn GP has already proved.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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In 2009. it was a completely fresh start for every team, so Brawn GP shouldn't be taken into consideration in this matter... Also, Brawn had the staff of disbanded SuperAguri during 2008. with the regular staff of Honda mean for 2009. work, who he used perfectly.

Ferrari's last year efforts should be enough evidence that making up over a second of time in less than 6 months is achievable...
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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F1snake
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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I went to the Barcelona test and took loads of photos. Just uploaded a few of them to my Flickr page in case anyone is interested:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fan6s/sets ... 942617992/

Cheers - Bjorn

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roadie
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Great photos! Thank you for sharing =D>

Rikhart
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Re: 2013 Testing - Barcelona 2: 28 Feb - 3 Mar

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Vanja #66 wrote:In 2009. it was a completely fresh start for every team, so Brawn GP shouldn't be taken into consideration in this matter... Also, Brawn had the staff of disbanded SuperAguri during 2008. with the regular staff of Honda mean for 2009. work, who he used perfectly.

Ferrari's last year efforts should be enough evidence that making up over a second of time in less than 6 months is achievable...
Ferrari were never 1 second behind, on race pace.

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