which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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Lycoming
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Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 22:58

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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munudeges wrote:Acceleration in the forward direction and lateral directions. What else? Forward acceleration is building speed on a straight - lateral acceleration is rotating the car's heading through the corner. Simple physics.
Not quite. To rotate the car's heading require's a yaw moment. Lateral acceleration simply keeps the mass tracking a circular path. If you reduce the contact patch forces into a single lateral force, you know nothing about the moments or orientation since you have a point mass model.
Phil wrote: ... but from my understanding regarding the 2014 season and turbos, it's power delievery. In a turbo'ed car, you have a very peaky curve. Torque at the wheels might be similar to last years V8s, but the torque curve and subsequently power delivery most definately won't be.

Because of the power-delivery which will be peaky and deliver 'more torque within a smaller band' (relative to a flat curve spread out more evenly across a wider band) you will have instances where the wheels will spin up significantly, either slipping and producing oversteer. This IMO will make the 2014 cars more snappy / twitchy
What do you mean by peaky torque curve? Or rather, to which curve do you refer? If you mean that the torque/RPM curve is peaky, sure, but what does that have to do with throttle response? All that means is that you have a narrow rev range where you have power and if you fall out of it, you need to up or downshift. Indeed the fact that they will now use 8 gears alludes to that, but that's all; If it's the torque/RPm curve that's peaky... there's no direct relationship between throttle and RPM, other than that more throttle generally means more RPM. A peaky torque/RPM curve does not, except in very extreme cases, make the throttle pedal more sensitive; that's down to the pedal maps, which map pedal position to torque demand.
munudeges wrote:
Must be why late, hard braking is such a valued trait.
I'm afraid the best drivers have always braked earlier sweetie and late hard braking is something you learn not to do at a very early age. You're not going to get less lateral acceleration later, and hence wasted time, by braking late and also killing the tyres in the process. It's a sacrifice. You give up one or the other and you err on the side of early braking and managing it from there.
I would argue that there's an "ideal" point at which to brake and relative to that point, braking earlier or later will be slower.

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SectorOne
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Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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munudeges wrote:I'm afraid the best drivers have always braked earlier sweetie and late hard braking is something you learn not to do at a very early age. You're not going to get less lateral acceleration later, and hence wasted time, by braking late and also killing the tyres in the process. It's a sacrifice. You give up one or the other and you err on the side of early braking and managing it from there.
I would not advise anyone to listen to the above.

"You are also killing the tires in the process"

First of all that depends on the compound itself, second of all, why don´t you expand your theory for lateral loads? Is your next "tip" to go slower in the corner because you learned that at an early age and that you will just kill your tires in the process?
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

tuj
tuj
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Joined: 15 Jun 2007, 15:50

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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I don't understand what was being said earlier about 'early braking'. As I have understood it, pretty much every professional driver 'trail-brakes', which is they carry that last 10% or so of brakes right up to the apex as opposed to coasting to the apex after braking in a straight line. Trail-braking also helps to get the front end to bite and the rear to rotate. I understand there might be some variations on this from driver to driver, but the basic technique is the same across the grid nowadays, is it not? I mean, everyone is a left-foot braker now.

Now with aero, as I understand it, much more of the brake bite/force is available to the driver, so even in a straight line the driver will jump on the brakes hard if he's carrying any kind of speed that generates adequate downforce, and then taper off the pedal as speed is reduced and downforce declines. Is this what is meant by 'early braking'?

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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munudeges wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Hence the term "late apex," darling.
What I'm describing is not late apex braking sweetheart. What is done here is early and few drivers can get it right. You've got this backwards.
Acceleration in the forward direction and lateral directions. What else? Forward acceleration is building speed on a straight - lateral acceleration is rotating the car's heading through the corner. Simple physics.
I'm afraid you're applying those terms in a manner that doesn't make much, if any, sense.
Must be why late, hard braking is such a valued trait.
I'm afraid the best drivers have always braked earlier sweetie and late hard braking is something you learn not to do at a very early age. You're not going to get less lateral acceleration later, and hence wasted time, by braking late and also killing the tyres in the process. It's a sacrifice. You give up one or the other and you err on the side of early braking and managing it from there.

This thread is really quite hilarious. You're all qualified driver coaches apparently.

I hope,for Raymond's sake you are a girl! LOL
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lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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lebesset wrote:an expert opinion

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26217777
Interesting but I didn't realise style would affect fuel consumption to such a big extent. This sounds thousands times worse than any tyre nursing aspect of previous seasons. Great, F1 will be LeMans now and no one is complaining :wink: ?

How much fuel (power/lap time) would there be between extremities over full race distance? (1% in LeMans between McNish and Kristensen) I understand he's amplifying to make a point but drivers can be aggressive over one lap and act differently during the race. Plus the rest is about reassuring demography and with couple of usual suspects "big" names thrown in their usual places, how is "believing that Ham is fastestest over one lap" relevant to style vs fuel economy #-o ? Malaysia 2013 on the other hand and comparison with Button should be.

So who's "aggressive" and who's "smooth"? I'd say visually aggressive - Perez - but he was exceptional at managing tyres, is managing fuel completely different? Tyres were about wheelspin, cornering or whatever else and pacing in the beginning/through the stint by feeling how much to limit you could push to be fast and not overdo. Fuel is about throttle and "Button-like" fluency and smoothness? [It's going to be another apples to oranges with different cars/engines/maps.]

lebesset
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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it is already clear that fuel is going to be a limiting factor at a lot of races , is it not ?
I think his point is that , to compare two F1 drivers named here , hamilton may be ultimately faster than button due to his style , but if he can only drive at , say , 98% to conserve fuel whereas button can drive at 100% that will give button a distinct advantage

personally I had no idea that TK could save 1% of fuel compared to nishy due to his button like driving style
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Del Boy
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Joined: 15 Feb 2010, 00:03

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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Because of the rule change regarding donuts this year Vettel will gain the most. ha ha

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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All drivers have adapted to this formula now.
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godlameroso
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
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Re: which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

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Or rather the teams have enough experience to make drivability almost a non-issue. I'm sure the new engines not only make more power but have a much wider power band, and very close to the throttle response of an atmospheric ICE.
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