2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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dans79
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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mclaren_mircea wrote:It happend every day since 28 January. You can't say that on day 1, day 2, day 4 they were pushing the limits of the car while others were not pushing. The other Mercedes cars had race simulations, and had by far less problems than Mercedes.
And just how do you know that, they didn't say what the problem was? For all we know someone messed up the hydraulics like last year. All we really know is that 45 mins before the end of the session and after doing 89 laps (over 1 and a half race distances), they had an issue, and decided to stop for the day.


To be frank, I'd bet my next pay check every team has problems every day.
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ChrisF1
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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I think somebody with Mclaren in their username is just creating some hope that their team will be the best through reliability and not speed ;)

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Rybo
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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The only team I would say doesn't have too many problems has been Williams. Besides a broken water pump, they have consistently been at or around the top for laps completed.

Richard
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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mclaren_mircea wrote:Reliability problems again for Mercedes AMG team ... this puts Mercedes in a dangerous situation.
Lets get this right - Are you saying the team with highest total mileage and also the most completed race simulations has problems with reliability?

Also, Merc's problems seem to be manageable because they are able to get back on track to build up the mileage. How is that worse than a team that sits in the garage all day with only one problem?

Remember this is testing not racing. So if something is creating odd telemetry they can call the car in to adjust it, then send it out again to see if the problem reoccurs (empirical learning relies on repeatability). However in a race situation Merc could stay on track but tell the driver to change a setting, or go easy on the brakes, or perhaps short shift to help the engine or gearbox. The reason they able to tell the driver what to do in the race is because they've seen it before in testing.

Meanwhile another team with few testing laps will be going into the unknown when they see a new problem during a race or qualification. At least in a race there's not much that can be done because their only choice is to stay on track until the engine data becomes critical. The nightmare would be a problem popping up in Q2 - they won't know if they should recall the car to try to work out how to implement a fix, or if they'd be better to live with the problem with slower lap times (and risk blowing the engine). Meanwhile Merc will already know what the problem means and they'd know how to fix it in time for Q3.

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Mr.G
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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richard_leeds wrote: Lets get this right - Are you saying the team with highest total mileage and also the most completed race simulations has problems with reliability?

Also, Merc's problems seem to be manageable because they are able to get back on track to build up the mileage. How is that worse than a team that sits in the garage all day with only one problem?
I would say it's fishy for me too, I don't say they are in big troubles, but they have quite a lot of small problems. They can fix them easy and fast, but if this happens during race they wont finish...
richard_leeds wrote:
Remember this is testing not racing. So if something is creating odd telemetry they can call the car in to adjust it, then send it out again to see if the problem reoccurs (empirical learning relies on repeatability). However in a race situation Merc could stay on track but tell the driver to change a setting, or go easy on the brakes, or perhaps short shift to help the engine or gearbox. The reason they able to tell the driver what to do in the race is because they've seen it before in testing.
Thay can do that, but still is reliability problem, not major but it is and it would cost them performance.
richard_leeds wrote:
Meanwhile another team with few testing laps will be going into the unknown when they see a new problem during a race or qualification. At least in a race there's not much that can be done because their only choice is to stay on track until the engine data becomes critical. The nightmare would be a problem popping up in Q2 - they won't know if they should recall the car to try to work out how to implement a fix, or if they'd be better to live with the problem with slower lap times (and risk blowing the engine). Meanwhile Merc will already know what the problem means and they'd know how to fix it in time for Q3.
Again they will know, but it still reliability problem.
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

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Mr.G
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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Does anyone know for the three top times today what were the conditions in term of lap number in stint and tyres?
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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Mr.G wrote:
richard_leeds wrote: Lets get this right - Are you saying the team with highest total mileage and also the most completed race simulations has problems with reliability?

Also, Merc's problems seem to be manageable because they are able to get back on track to build up the mileage. How is that worse than a team that sits in the garage all day with only one problem?
I would say it's fishy for me too, I don't say they are in big troubles, but they have quite a lot of small problems. They can fix them easy and fast, but if this happens during race they wont finish...
richard_leeds wrote:
Remember this is testing not racing. So if something is creating odd telemetry they can call the car in to adjust it, then send it out again to see if the problem reoccurs (empirical learning relies on repeatability). However in a race situation Merc could stay on track but tell the driver to change a setting, or go easy on the brakes, or perhaps short shift to help the engine or gearbox. The reason they able to tell the driver what to do in the race is because they've seen it before in testing.
Thay can do that, but still is reliability problem, not major but it is and it would cost them performance.
richard_leeds wrote:
Meanwhile another team with few testing laps will be going into the unknown when they see a new problem during a race or qualification. At least in a race there's not much that can be done because their only choice is to stay on track until the engine data becomes critical. The nightmare would be a problem popping up in Q2 - they won't know if they should recall the car to try to work out how to implement a fix, or if they'd be better to live with the problem with slower lap times (and risk blowing the engine). Meanwhile Merc will already know what the problem means and they'd know how to fix it in time for Q3.
Again they will know, but it still reliability problem.
No IMO

This is testing, and testing new engines. When you have a new car with new PU you need to learn about them, and that include to learn what are the weak points, what will be the first part to fail, so they have to run the car until something breaks. That does not mean they have reliability problems, they´re just learning where they need to focus the development

LookBackTime
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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Bahrain trackside - Peter Windsor reports


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Mr.G
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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Andres125sx wrote: No IMO

This is testing, and testing new engines. When you have a new car with new PU you need to learn about them, and that include to learn what are the weak points, what will be the first part to fail, so they have to run the car until something breaks. That does not mean they have reliability problems, they´re just learning where they need to focus the development
Well I just read an article where Nico says:
Nico wrote: "I managed to do a couple of good laps, but in the afternoon we had a few reliability problems," he explained.
"It just shows everyone is fully on the limit.
"OK we're looking a little better on reliability than some others, but even we're on the limit and having problems.
"To get everything ready and bullet proof for Melbourne is really tough.
"I'm optimistic, but confident? Speed doesn't help if you don't get to the end of the race.
"Everything needs to fit together; we're not there yet and there's just a few days left. I hope we're ready for Melbourne; it's going to be close."

...

"We're in a decent position starting off now, but I don't feel we're that far ahead. Everyone has problems and we do too."
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

vtr
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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Thanks LookBackTime for posting that video, Peter's work has been excellent.

Very interesting observations about the gear ratios, I wonder how fast they are going there. In the Caterham telemetry pic, which is from 2012 supposedly, their car was going about 307-308 km/h at the end of that straight (after the 10 corner). That would be really long ratios for the Force India if he really was going at 5th gear at the end of the straight. Maybe they decided to "use" only 7 gears, and keep the 8th for DRS especially at Monza or Spa?

LookBackTime
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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Peter Windsor - Driving styles through Bahrain's Turn 9


the EDGE
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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vtr wrote:Thanks LookBackTime for posting that video, Peter's work has been excellent.

Very interesting observations about the gear ratios, I wonder how fast they are going there. In the Caterham telemetry pic, which is from 2012 supposedly, their car was going about 307-308 km/h at the end of that straight (after the 10 corner). That would be really long ratios for the Force India if he really was going at 5th gear at the end of the straight. Maybe they decided to "use" only 7 gears, and keep the 8th for DRS especially at Monza or Spa?
Lets not forget teams get a chance to change ratios once this season, perhaps they plan to take advantage of this and gear for a lower top speed for now planning to change this when they have a better understanding of things before Spa in august

beelsebob
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McG wrote:Or McLaren were heavy on fuel, or running lower power, or etc etc
Why would being heavy on fuel/running low power result in a steep lap time decline?

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motobaleno
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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any news about peak velocities for this session?

CHT
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Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

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Rybo wrote:The only team I would say doesn't have too many problems has been Williams. Besides a broken water pump, they have consistently been at or around the top for laps completed.
perhaps they havent been pushing hard enough to break something.

That been said, I am just wondering what is on Pastor mind now.

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