Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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thedutchguy
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Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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According to the FIA and the majority of team and engine manufactures, Formula One ‘needed’ to go green in order to stay relevant for the car industry which is on a continuing trend towards downsized, more efficient engines with energy recovery systems. But does F1 really need to follow suit, or as some suggest, lead the way with developments that are ‘relevant’ to road cars? I think the underlying question we should ask is what Formula One exactly is. And judging from reactions to the Australian GP, a lot of fans seem to have a different view to those who came up with the latest rulebook.

F1 is beyond road cars, that’s why we watch
Let’s not beat about the bush, Formula 1 has nothing to do with road cars. Even the 2014 cars with the V6 turbo engines and energy recovery have no meaningful common ground with the cars we drive every day. Want to make racing relevant to road cars? Pop on a roof, add room for three extra seats and use an engine which is even remotely similar to what we drive every day. What do you say?… that already exists?

Indeed, it’s called touring car racing, fronted by the WTCC. And who cares about WTCC? Bluntly put: nobody but the manufactures involved. No one pays in excess of 300 euros to visit a WTCC event. Nobody gets up in the middle of the night to watch WTCC races live on TV. People do to watch F1.

Pinnacle of motorsport
People watch Formula 1 because it is the pinnacle of motorsport. The fastest cars driven by the best drivers. People watch because F1 is far out of reach - a dream if you wish – a different planet from the cars we drive every day. Formula One is giving itself an increasingly hard time being just that. During the race in Australia, the new V6 cars were lapping the Albert Park circuit about ten seconds per lap slower than their V10 predecessors ten years ago. Should the fans care? Opinions differ. If the racing is good and you don’t go on Youtube to watch how much faster cars were a decade ago, it’s OK for most people I guess. What’s less OK is seeing races where drivers are over five seconds a lap slower than their ultimate pace, lifting and coasting into corners to save fuel and tires. That's not racing.

Sound is key
But nothing is a bad as the new muffled sound of the V6 turbo F1 cars with their whirring ERS motors. I’ve been fortunate enough to attend grand prix events both in the V10 and the more recent V8 era, and in my perception sound is a very important part to the overall experience. In fact, for my it’s THE reason to go to a race, which can otherwise be watched much better on TV.

The first time I ever visited a race was the 2005 Belgian Grand Prix at Spa, the last year of the V10 engines. Due to the horrendous traffic we arrived late and as we got close to the track, practice had already begun. I can still vividly remember the experience of sitting in the bus a few kilometers away from the track, hearing the screaming V10 engine sound come up from between the Belgian hillsides. It literally put chills down my spine. Even the recent V8 engines, which arguably didn't sound a nice as the V10’s, were mighty impressive. Watching the field come towards the grandstand were a sat at the La Source hairpin in 2012 (watching Grosjean take out Alsonso and Hamilton in the first corner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUSHjcFLd2I) was simply amazing, in no small part due to the sound that went all the way down to your core.

I’ve also attended several ‘City Racing’ events in my hometown of Rotterdam. During these events all kinds of race cars drive on a makeshift downtown racetrack, ranging from go-cars to GT racers and formula cars. I’ve seen Indycars, Formula 3 cars, A1GP and Super League Formula cars during these events. None of them put nearly as much excitement into the crow as the moment when a Formula 1 car is started and emerges on track. Not because the F1 cars drive much faster – the track at City Racing is narrow and bumpy – but because of the V8 engine revving up to 18.000 rpm, with its amazing sound bouncing of the downtown skyscrapers. Simply put, it is the sound of power. That sound is now gone and that’s a big shame. I had hoped that the new V6 turbo’s would at least sound as throaty as the turbo cars of the late eighties. They don’t.

Super-efficient engine management means that no fuel is burnt in the exhaust, and the large turbo compressors muffle sounds to the extend where F1 is not even a shadow of its former self. And as predicted, the fuel flow restrictions have imposed a practical rev limit of about 12.000 rpm, instead of the theoretical 15.000 rpm which is allowed by the regulations. During qualifying the Force India cars revved the highest, occasionally hitting the 13.000 mark where the sound became quite nice, only to immediately shift up into lower rpm’s. Moreover the electric motors of the ERS systems and the turbo can clearly be heard over the exhaust note of the engines, both track side and from the onboard camera’s. From what’s I’ve seen so far the onboard sounds from the Mercedes are the nicest, whereas the Ferrari is just plain horrible to listen to with its high pitched hissing sounds from the electrical systems and/or turbo.

Will it grow on us?
Leading up to the first race I’ve heard various tv pundits talk about the sound ‘growing’ on them and it actually being ‘quite nice’ to hear other mechanical noises and tyre squeal. That’s rubbish and comments after the race proved that: no one was happy with the sound, although most involved in the sport won’t say it too explicitly because F1 is what puts money on their tables. From what I’ve read, people sitting in the grandstands at the end of the straight couldn’t hear the cars accelerating down the straight, which is nothing short of a joke. It’s also quite sad that more than a few people thought that the highlight of the weekend was a demo with one of Paul Stoddard’s old F1 V10 duo-seaters.
I personally don’t think the new sound will grow on F1 fans. Youtube is too full of clips that remember us of the V10 en V8 cars. And F1 demo’s given with older cars will be more exciting than seeing the new ones. Moreover, I’m quite sure that the GP2 support races during the European part of the season will be more spectacular to watch than the F1 main events. Time will tell.

F1 has gone down this road and there’s obviously no way back, at least not in the near future. Calls after the Australian GP that the sound should be changed are not to be taken seriously. This can’t be done overnight and as long as fuel efficiency is as prominent as it is today, teams will use every drop of fuel to drive their cars, not to 'waste' it on generating more noise.

Fact is, we’re stuck with the new engines for the foreseeable future. Noting will change that. Too much money has been invested, too much prestige is on the line. Hopefully the focus on fuel efficiency and it’s resulting lift-and-coast-style racing will become somewhat less, but even that’s not likely. The best we can realistically hope for is that something will be done about the sound for next year, perhaps by using mandatory megaphone-style exhausts.We’ll see.

Could F1 exist without car companies?
But could F1 have resisted the ‘green’ push of the car companies? Yes, and I think it should have. Not only because of the arguments already given above about what F1 should be in my opinion, but also because we all know that car companies come and go as they please anyway. F1 had a lot of involvement from car companies in the early 2000’s, but by the end of the decade Toyota, BMW and Honda had left as quick as that had come. Officially due to the global economic crisis, although that might very well have been a welcome excuse, and changes in management and lackluster results likely also played a key part with more than one of them.

Today we have Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari. If F1 wouldn't have gone down the turbo path, Renault would reportedly have left. So what? Ferrari would have stayed, Mercedes would likely have stayed and so would Cossworth, which has now been forced out. With the move towards the ultra-complex turbo engines, F1 has dived right into the arms of the car manufacturers, who have shown in the past to be the most opportunistic and least reliable partners of the sport. How ironic.

But for the sake of argument, let’s say that all car companies would have left F1 eventually, would that have meant the end of F1? Of course not. There are quite a few engine manufactures that can build proper race car engines and would be more than happy to sell them to F1 teams. Cossworth is the most obvious example, but others like Judd and Zytec are also more than capable of building proper engines, probably at the fraction of the cost for the current V6 power units. Maybe F1 would have gone down a slightly less sophisticated road in terms of engine technology, but F1 would still have been there, and the general audience wouldn’t have noticed a lot of difference in performance and sound.

For now, I’m still a fan of the sport and I’ll probably watch all of the races on TV as I've done for decades. I won’t be visiting a F1 race this year though, as I’m quite sure the experience won’t be worth the ticket price to me. Perhaps I’ll step by a Boss GP event, to hear some F1 cars of the past scream by with their V10 and V8 engines…
Last edited by thedutchguy on 20 Mar 2014, 22:43, edited 4 times in total.

CMSMJ1
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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Not read it - but we get what we are given, so let's just accept it is not forever and maybe we'll get onto maglev and teleportation/wipeout style racing in the next 50 years....

I watch historics - they are awesome. Make it happen :)
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beelsebob
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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TL;DR, Long story short... Yes, F1 has needed larger torquier engines for a long time. We've needed more tail waggling, more having to lift or break for eau rouge, and more driver control for years. We've also needed more interesting technology for years.

And finally, F1 is finally having an impact on road cars (even if only the very high end). Remember, cars like the McLaren P1 only exist because they act as test beds for the tech F1 teams use.
Last edited by Steven on 21 Mar 2014, 14:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: TL;DR. Post only remains because it was replied upon

bhall
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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beelsebob wrote:[...]

And finally, F1 is finally having an impact on road cars (even if only the very high end). Remember, cars like the McLaren P1 only exist because they act as test beds for the tech F1 teams use.
That is the way it's always been. Technology transfers from road cars to F1; not the other way around.

beelsebob
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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bhallg2k wrote:
beelsebob wrote:[...]

And finally, F1 is finally having an impact on road cars (even if only the very high end). Remember, cars like the McLaren P1 only exist because they act as test beds for the tech F1 teams use.
That is the way it's always been. Technology transfers from road cars to F1; not the other way around.
Why was that research done in a road car? Because the rules of F1 specified that, so a team wanted to do research. F1 is the thing that drove the development of the road car here.

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thedutchguy
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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beelsebob wrote:And finally, F1 is finally having an impact on road cars (even if only the very high end). Remember, cars like the McLaren P1 only exist because they act as test beds for the tech F1 teams use.
I don't think so. If McLaren wanted to test hybrid technology for F1, they'd build a mule and use that. You don't design, develop, build, (crash)test and get road homologation for a sports car just to test hybrid technology for your F1 powertrains. Not to mention that McLaring doesn't even build the own powertrain - including the hybrid part - for their F1 cars, they get them from Mercedes.

beelsebob
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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thedutchguy wrote:
beelsebob wrote:And finally, F1 is finally having an impact on road cars (even if only the very high end). Remember, cars like the McLaren P1 only exist because they act as test beds for the tech F1 teams use.
I don't think so. If McLaren wanted to test hybrid technology for F1, they'd build a mule and use that. You don't design, develop, build, (crash)test and get road homologation for a sports car just to test hybrid technology for your F1 powertrains. Not to mention that McLaring doesn't even build the own powertrain - including the hybrid part - for their F1 cars, they get them from Mercedes.
McLaren have a serious investment in making sure a power train works next year. And Really, yes you do build a road car if you want to test F1 tech – remember, this project was started in the era of the budget cap. Getting a bunch of people "unrelated to F1" to test all of that stuff for you avoids the budget cap.

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thedutchguy
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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beelsebob wrote:McLaren have a serious investment in making sure a power train works next year. And Really, yes you do build a road car if you want to test F1 tech – remember, this project was started in the era of the budget cap. Getting a bunch of people "unrelated to F1" to test all of that stuff for you avoids the budget cap.
Next years powertrain wil be from Honda. Developed together with McLaren? Probably to some extend, but there are easier ways to develop technology than to go through the pains of producing a road car, even with a budget cap in place.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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bhallg2k wrote:That is the way it's always been. Technology transfers from road cars to F1; not the other way around
This is not true for the top racing class (GP racers) in a true historical context. The first three decades of GP racing were a hot bed of technology that found its way much later into road cars. As an engineer I'm not at all interested in the sterile years since the last turbo era. 2014 could not have come soon enough for me.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bhall
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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thedutchguy wrote:
beelsebob wrote:And finally, F1 is finally having an impact on road cars (even if only the very high end). Remember, cars like the McLaren P1 only exist because they act as test beds for the tech F1 teams use.
I don't think so. If McLaren wanted to test hybrid technology for F1, they'd build a mule and use that. You don't design, develop, build, (crash)test and get road homologation for a sports car just to test hybrid technology for your F1 powertrains. Not to mention that McLaring doesn't even build the own powertrain - including the hybrid part - for their F1 cars, they get them from Mercedes.
Agreed. This is what it looks like to test and develop F1 technology in a "road car":

Image

In my view, claims otherwise demonstrate the persuasive power of the "road relevance" marketing strategy.

Honda will re-enter the sport next year under the aegis of "road relevance", despite the fact that technology already employed in this car...

Image

...is markedly more advanced than anything seen in Formula One.
Last edited by Steven on 21 Mar 2014, 13:58, edited 1 time in total.
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SectorOne
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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thedutchguy wrote:But for the sake of argument, let’s say that all car companies would have left F1 eventually, would that have meant the end of F1?
I think so definitely. Particularly Ferrari. And i think the FIA and Bernie knows this and that´s why we have a V6 that not only made Renault stay but attracted Honda.

Also i think when you are saying car manufacturers just come and go. Take into account the sheer number of private teams that come and go and it´s off the charts.

I think the main difference is that a manufacturer has a much higher chance of coming back then private teams.
Therefore listening to manufacturers is the smartest thing to do in the long run.

Or will you just bank on the fact that shady teams come along that really can´t afford to be in Formula 1?
Like HRT that accomplished nothing expect pouring money into a black hole.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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iotar__
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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bhallg2k wrote:
beelsebob wrote:[...]

And finally, F1 is finally having an impact on road cars (even if only the very high end). Remember, cars like the McLaren P1 only exist because they act as test beds for the tech F1 teams use.
That is the way it's always been. Technology transfers from road cars to F1; not the other way around.
So this it where all those winglets, front-back wings, coke-bottle shapes, engine mappings, paddle-clutches, floors, engine cooling and internal flow all packed into F1 came came from. I saw them every day on road cars but didn't make a connection. If you go absurd enough - it took four wheels from road cars too. I also swear I saw a Fiesta when they put small rear-mirrors and shaped them to gain 0,001 s on 5 km distance. It had f-duct too, loser was pushing his knee against the hole (moveable aero is against the law on a Fiesta :( )

Clinging to selective examples from the past, ignoring all the other changes and lament some other as if it was end of the world is silly. About photos, what do you mean more advanced? F1 is about which car is faster according to current rules, what is in this car that will make F1 car beat the competition? It doesn't look advanced aerodynamically but maybe it takes an engineer to make a connection.

Technology is only small part of it anyway - limiting involvement of car manufacturers to it makes no sense - marketing is much bigger part. You know it includes the part when they "talk" about technology transfer.

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iotar__
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Re: Did F1 need a greener engine formula?

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About OP:
F1 is none of these things, there's no golden standard, it's just racing formula of very fast cars that brings profits and is as artificial as it gets, it's a combination of many forces. F1 needed engines, money and teams.

So what if engines manufacturers left? 1. Ask McLaren where else would they get 50+ million per season 2. Mercedes was close to leaving and still is 3. Couple of teams/engine manufacturers could impact every other team, competitiveness from limited would steer towards non-existent. Unless it's the golden age from the past you're refferring to when McLaren/Ferrari could make every mistake and remain on top. Two engines, why not one if Merc left?

As for pinnacle - is there anything "better"? Pinnacle it is then. Circumstances, like safety, the rest of the world or commercial interests may tone down any theoretical pinnacles you may have in mind. Tough luck.
Hybrid thing - like it or not that is reality of every (or most, I didn't check every one) prestige, pinnacle road cars manufacturer. Boycott Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche and Le Mans along with F1.

I don't want to be repetitive but from my point ofview F1 has many bigger problems than sound or not enough cylinders: competitiveness, financial equality, and complete chaos in decision making. Noses are a great example, sound is not bad either. What is important to you may not be important for everybody. I for example would prefer six best drivers fighting for the championship in V4 than 1 or 2 in V12.

Just_a_fan
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WhiteBlue wrote: The first three decades of GP racing were a hot bed of technology that found its way much later into road cars.
So what stuff from this "hot bed of technology" found it's way on to road cars?
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bhall
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iotar__ wrote:So this it where all those winglets, front-back wings, coke-bottle shapes, engine mappings, paddle-clutches, floors, engine cooling and internal flow all packed into F1...
It seems you've confused utility for relevance. If road cars required "all those winglets, front-back wings, coke-bottle shapes, engine mappings, paddle-clutches, floors, engine cooling and internal flow all packed into F1," they would have them. But, they don't need them, so they don't have them.

Search through any technology shared between road cars and race cars, and 99% of the time, you'll find that it originated in road cars.