Haas - American team in F1

[sgth0mas]

How does everyone know that its all ferrari engineers doing the design work for haas? Or that the haas car is basically an F14-T? It doesnt make sense that a team would loan out engineers for anyone elses car. Do ferrari engineers help with sauber? Did they help with TR?

[dobbster71]

Ah, but the technical partnership between Haas & Ferrari is on a completely different level to anything seen before. Haas is taking as much as he is allowed to take from Ferrari. Therefore, Haas will need significantly more direct input from Ferrari to make everything work.

[GrndLkNatv]

Ah, but the technical partnership between Haas & Ferrari is on a completely different level to anything seen before. Haas is taking as much as he is allowed to take from Ferrari. Therefore, Haas will need significantly more direct input from Ferrari to make everything work.

I have a few friends who have switched over in the last few weeks... Some are temporary..

[bhall II]

How does everyone know that its all ferrari engineers doing the design work for haas? Or that the haas car is basically an F14-T? It doesnt make sense that a team would loan out engineers for anyone elses car. Do ferrari engineers help with sauber? Did they help with TR?

Because Ferrari is using Haas' current position outside the jurisdiction of the FIA's wind tunnel/CFD restrictions to its own advantage.

There has been some controversy around the new US based F1 team that is set to enter F1 next season in a technical collaboration with Ferrari, but team owner Gene Haas has said that F1 is in a “muddle” as to what being a constructor actually means.

Ferrari’s rivals are grumbling about way the Italian outfit is using the freedom from regulation allowed to a new team, that is not yet competing in the championship. At the same time applauding the ingenuity of the scheme, which means that many hours of CFD and wind tunnel work have been completed at Maranello in Haas’ name, which rivals believe Ferrari has benefitted from. F1 regulations strictly limit the hours an existing team can use each week.

[...]

"Allegedly."

[Raleigh]

The Haas car is of not "just" a F14-T. Certainly the design originated with the F14-T, but it's been developed with everything Ferrari learnt from the SF15-T and incorporates design features that will almost certainly appear in the 2016 Ferrari.

From an aero perspective the car is now a more advanced SF15-T. In overall form and detail extremely similar, but with a short nose, perhaps slightly tighter coke bottle and a few detail changes that can only be deliberate which means Ferrari thinks they are the way forward.

The most interesting change though is that the car is using push-rod suspension at the front. Either Ferrari will be moving to push-rod next year, or they want a direct comparison of push-rod/pull-rod.

In any case this is a very advanced car and could be quite competitive, I'm not expecting Haas to be winning races or anything but they should be mid-fielders and not the usual dead last new team.

[tok-tokkie]

"I think our chassis is going to be substantially different in construction from the Ferrari one, because we're just doing it separately. We think our chassis in some ways will be better than a Ferrari chassis because we're using some more…I won't say state of the art but we're taking a different approach than Ferrari is and we think it's probably a better design.

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5457 ... n_Ferrari/


Big words.

I have owned a Haas CNC machining center for 20 years. I have great respect for their design - they design from first principles to give a design that is fundamentally right. No gimmicks, just elegant design. That applies to their CNC machines that I am familiar with. If they are using that approach in their chassis design then I am most interested and hopeful for their car. But note well he is saying it is just the chassis that they are doing like that. Suspension & aero are not part of his claims. Delarra will manufacture the chassis so it will be well made.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Haas car is of not "just" a F14-T. Certainly the design originated with the F14-T, but it's been developed with everything Ferrari learnt from the SF15-T and incorporates design features that will almost certainly appear in the 2016 Ferrari.

From an aero perspective the car is now a more advanced SF15-T. In overall form and detail extremely similar, but with a short nose, perhaps slightly tighter coke bottle and a few detail changes that can only be deliberate which means Ferrari thinks they are the way forward.

The most interesting change though is that the car is using push-rod suspension at the front. Either Ferrari will be moving to push-rod next year, or they want a direct comparison of push-rod/pull-rod.

In any case this is a very advanced car and could be quite competitive, I'm not expecting Haas to be winning races or anything but they should be mid-fielders and not the usual dead last new team.

Pushrod is easier to adjust the setup so maybe for user friendlyness why they have push rod.

[Manoah2u]

"I think our chassis is going to be substantially different in construction from the Ferrari one, because we're just doing it separately. We think our chassis in some ways will be better than a Ferrari chassis because we're using some more…I won't say state of the art but we're taking a different approach than Ferrari is and we think it's probably a better design.

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5457 ... n_Ferrari/


Big words.

I have owned a Haas CNC machining center for 20 years. I have great respect for their design - they design from first principles to give a design that is fundamentally right. No gimmicks, just elegant design. That applies to their CNC machines that I am familiar with. If they are using that approach in their chassis design then I am most interested and hopeful for their car. But note well he is saying it is just the chassis that they are doing like that. Suspension & aero are not part of his claims. Delarra will manufacture the chassis so it will be well made.

without being critical of haas' actual business equipment - i have no experience in that and im absolutely sure its great quality, how does that matter in any way to their F1 foray?

they are not making anything themselves, so any comparison to their machining equipment is a non-existing link that makes zero sense. It's Dallara who makes the car, and ferrari that delivers many parts. Haas is almost merely a sponsor in that retrospect.

[RSF1]

Hi guys ! I'm a new member on your forum. Scuse me for my average level in english but I'm French, and I'm trying to learn speak your language (I think speaking on your forum will help me more than english courses !).
I come here because there isn't any french forum about technical of the F1. I post this message here because I'm a very big supporter of Romain Grosjean and I'm interested about his future team and his level of competitivity. I come here also because I'm really interested about technical and I hope become engineer (I'm 17 years old).

After reading the last pages of this topic about Haas F1 team, I thought it would be interesting to see how will evolve the technical partnership when Haas will reach a good level of competitivity (around 5th or 6th place in the constructor championship probably in 3 or 4 years).

I also ask myself if this type of partnership is viable and sustainable because I heard Franck Montagny, who is now consultant on Canal+ (french diffuser of F1) who said that it will be difficult to lead and to progress with this team because they will have just a few people on their factories and they will have not many things to do, and it will be difficult to have results with this team.

Furthermore, there is a problem of localisation because the car is designed and built in USA (Kannapolis factory and Dallara), in Italia (Ferrari) and in England (Branbury) and we know what problems could cause a dispersion of the places of production and the remoteness from England which is THE place in F1 because there is all of the suppliers.

So, what do you think about the short-term and long-term future of this team ? Is it really a viable project to optimize partnership to extreme ? Do you think other private team could do similarly in a near future ?

Thanks for your answers and excuse me yet for my bad english ! ;D

[sgth0mas]

"I think our chassis is going to be substantially different in construction from the Ferrari one, because we're just doing it separately. We think our chassis in some ways will be better than a Ferrari chassis because we're using some more…I won't say state of the art but we're taking a different approach than Ferrari is and we think it's probably a better design.

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5457 ... n_Ferrari/


Big words.

I have owned a Haas CNC machining center for 20 years. I have great respect for their design - they design from first principles to give a design that is fundamentally right. No gimmicks, just elegant design. That applies to their CNC machines that I am familiar with. If they are using that approach in their chassis design then I am most interested and hopeful for their car. But note well he is saying it is just the chassis that they are doing like that. Suspension & aero are not part of his claims. Delarra will manufacture the chassis so it will be well made.

without being critical of haas' actual business equipment - i have no experience in that and im absolutely sure its great quality, how does that matter in any way to their F1 foray?

they are not making anything themselves, so any comparison to their machining equipment is a non-existing link that makes zero sense. It's Dallara who makes the car, and ferrari that delivers many parts. Haas is almost merely a sponsor in that retrospect.

I would venture to guess that haas makes quite a bit of their parts...even if not the majority. Also, hes clearly talking about haas engineering...which haas is doing a fair amount of.

[F1NAC]

Wheels that will be used for 60% scale model

[proteus]

I wonder why they dont use simple 3D printed rim out of plastic? Would it not be cheaper and easier to use, or is there a firmer reason to use metal?

[Racer X]

I was thinking the same thing isn't that a Waste but I guess for HAAS it's more of a statement of the quality of their equipment.

[SteveRacer]

Maybe they need to be more robust than plastic?

[PlatinumZealot]

I have wondered this myself looking also at other wind tunel models. Could be something tobdo with surface quality and heat transfer.