Haas - American team in F1

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Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Haas - American team in F1

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Moxie wrote:I chose my words poorly. My comments comparing GM to Chrystler related to any idea that GM might have hard feelings over the possibility that Haas cars might sport a Chrystler logo. I was attempting to show that these two companies are in different circumstances. The cost of putting a logo on the side of an F1 car is orders or magnitude greater than putting that same logo on the side of a NASCAR. Chrystler is not a stand alone firm. It is wholly owned by FIAT which also owns Ferrari. I agree it would cost FIAT very little to place a Chrystler logo where a Ferrari logo might otherwise appear. GM however is a stand alone firm. For GM to even consider being offended by Haas F1 cars bearing a Chrystler logo is asinine. For GM to ever consider sponsoring an F1 car would be pissing money away.

FYI. You greatly underestimate the politics surrounding these GM and Chrystler. Even though I agree with you that it is reasonable for Fiat to put its Chrystler logo on an F1 car, don't expect it to happen without a fair share of negative criticism. When I mentioned that thousands of people had their pensions and health benefits stripped away from them, I was being polite. The real number is hundreds of thousands of people.
Ah yes, i forgot that Haas runs Chevrolets in their Nascar team. That wouldn't be taken well, i agree.
GM sponsoring an F1 car indeed would be pissing money away, and so would Chrysler if they'd just think hey lets' put our name on a F1 car. Indeed, the link here is FIAT whom could 'decide for them' that they'd better slam 'Chrysler' on the car.
I'd say the 'car manufacturer buyout' is a sensitive subject, but i really don't feel that would be an issue in this sole, rare opportunity that could be given for Haas.
Like, for example, Caterham/Team Lotus/whatever advertising with TATA for example.

I do, however, agree the NASCAR-Chevy link is a sensitive area and arguably a game breaker for this.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Haas - American team in F1

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TAG wrote:Not bad news for Haas/sponsorship.
U.S. Bucks Trend With F1 Viewing Even while Formula One’s television audience drops overall, it managed to grow in the U.S. by 10.1% to 12.6 million viewers last year, according to the sport’s recently released annual media report.

The report also showed that the number of viewers in the U.S. who watched between four and nine races last year increased by 128% while those who watched 10 or more doubled. It adds that NBC Sports Network, which carries the series, “recorded year-on-year increases for every single round shown. On average each race shown on NBCSN attracted 85% more viewers this season when compared to 2013.”

The Canadian Grand Prix, which aired on the main NBC station, drew 3.5 million unique viewers, using the industry-standard measurement of anyone who watched at least 15 non-consecutive minutes of the sport.

The U.S. bucked the sport’s wider trend of declining audiences over the past six years. In that time, the global viewership has slipped steadily from 600 million viewers in 2008 to 425 million in 2014.

The major reason is that over the past three years, the sport has migrated from free-to-air broadcasters to pay channels in a slew of countries. Britain led the way in 2012 Sky Sports began broadcasting all F1 races live while its free-to-air national rival, the BBC, shows only half of them.
It shows that the USA's attention to F1 is growing. Which is good news for Bernie, not neccesarily for HAAS.
Remember, HAAS is not using F1 to promote himself more in the states.
HAAS is eyeing european buyers of his CNC equipment. You could say he could care less about F1 ratings in the USA.

There is a bit of a double path to take here, for Gene, though. He's going to advertise with his logo hugely, no doubt.
Now regardless of that, G.Haas would offcourse like more income for his F1 'project' instead of just slamming company money to it. That makes Haas F1 team open for potential sponsors.
Now here comes the crossroads; Haas wants european attention for his equipment. That would mean he'd want to promote his car/team to europe more then anything.
That means european sponsors would have a good influence; promotion of the vehicle and thus Haas exposure on sponsor events. Attention from european companies. News articles of Haas dealing with european companies.
All in the direction he's aiming at.

Now on the other side, we have Haas being essentially an American team. He wants to do it 'the american way'. There will be some American pride there. Now what better to 'fill' that pride with American sponsors? But which ones would it be?
Interestingly, Adam Jacobs is Haas F1's CMO. Adam Jacobs has 'bud' under his 'clientele' so to speak. He could thus opt for slamming Bud [Budweiser] on the Haas cars.
Great for the USA, except there's only 1 race in the states, 1 in canada, and 1 in Mexico.
The rest is in Europe, Asia and sandpit republics. Nobody has interest in Budweiser. I thus don't expect that to be branded on the Haas cars. And for that same issue, i don't think other american companies will be much present on Haas's F1 cars.
I therefor doubt whether Haas will hang on a lot to 'American pride'.

In other words, indeed, i don't really believe Haas will be effected much or interested much in F1 ratings in the USA.

Bernie, however, is a whole different story. Bernie's wet dream is conquering the USA with F1, as there is still a great $$ opportunity in his eyes stateside. I don't think there really is, in reality. But Bernie, he's having vampire dreams of the USA sucking uncle Sam out of Benjamins. Whether that's good news? Well, look at what he did with Turkey, India, Korea for example. Sucked them out of $$, then left them for dead with bite marks in their necks.
There's an opportunity to gain F1 attention stateside. There's also an opportunity to permanently have the USA hate F1 if they get 'screwed over' by Bernie's mad demands. Let's hope that won't happen.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

acosmichippo
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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Moxie wrote:On a lighter note...Oscar Meyer is a prominent American brand which has a logo with a lot of yellow. I'd love to see an F1 weinermobile.
That ship has sailed. Their perfect opportunity was 2014.

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bdr529
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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Budweiser is brand owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev, Who just happen to be the largest producer of beer in the world,
they have a 20% share of the globel market, twice as much as the next 2 put together SABMiller and Heineken

if you look at the list of the top publicly traded companies, American companies account for 9 of the top 10.
the States have more " Global 500" then any other country in the world.

If F1 is a good investment, then I can't see why any number of American companies wouldn't want to climb aboard

Gatecrasher
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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FYI, If you search for Fortune 500 you will typically just get a US based list of companies. Search for Global 500 and this is what you would see for 2014

1. Wal-Mart - US
2. Shell - Dutch (Incorp in the UK)
3. Sinpoec - China
4. China National Petroleum - China
5. Exxon Mobil - US
6. BP - UK
7. State Grid - China
8. Volkswagen - Germany
9. Toyota - Japan
10. Glencore - Swiss

That is not to say that there are more than enough US based companies with >$100B in yearly revenues that could afford F1. I hope we do not see a Wal-Mart disposable car, made in China on the cheap that will break down before the end of the first lap :mrgreen:

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strad
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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InBev was a brewing company that resulted from the merger between Belgium-based company Interbrew and Brazilian brewer AmBev that occurred in 2004. It existed independently until the acquisition of Anheuser-Busch in 2008, that formed Anheuser-Busch InBev (abbreviated AB InBev). InBev had operations in over 30 countries and sales in over 130 countries.[1] In 2006, it had a market capitalization of €30.6 billion and net profit of €3.2 billion on sales of €13.3 billion.

On July 13, 2008, InBev agreed to buy Anheuser-Busch for a total value of $52 billion, which would create a new company to be named Anheuser-Busch InBev. It was reported that Anheuser will get two seats on the combined board.[2] To obtain antitrust approval in the United States, InBev agreed to divest itself of the company that imports Labatt's beer, another InBev brand, into the United States; this transaction was completed on March 13, 2009.[3]

The all-cash agreement, for $70 per share, or almost $52 billion, would create the world's largest brewer, uniting the maker of Budweiser and Michelob with the producer of Stella Artois, Bass and Brahma. The two companies would have yearly sales of more than $36.4 billion, surpassing the current number one brewer, London-based SABMiller.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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bdr529
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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strad wrote:
InBev was a brewing company that resulted from the merger between Belgium-based company Interbrew and Brazilian brewer AmBev that occurred in 2004. It existed independently until the acquisition of Anheuser-Busch in 2008, that formed Anheuser-Busch InBev (abbreviated AB InBev). InBev had operations in over 30 countries and sales in over 130 countries.[1] In 2006, it had a market capitalization of €30.6 billion and net profit of €3.2 billion on sales of €13.3 billion.

On July 13, 2008, InBev agreed to buy Anheuser-Busch for a total value of $52 billion, which would create a new company to be named Anheuser-Busch InBev. It was reported that Anheuser will get two seats on the combined board.[2] To obtain antitrust approval in the United States, InBev agreed to divest itself of the company that imports Labatt's beer, another InBev brand, into the United States; this transaction was completed on March 13, 2009.[3]

The all-cash agreement, for $70 per share, or almost $52 billion, would create the world's largest brewer, uniting the maker of Budweiser and Michelob with the producer of Stella Artois, Bass and Brahma. The two companies would have yearly sales of more than $36.4 billion, surpassing the current number one brewer, London-based SABMiller.
Not sure if your backing up my point or not?, as the last paragraph reads like it has not happened yet
Last edited by bdr529 on 14 Feb 2015, 04:26, edited 3 times in total.

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bdr529
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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Gatecrasher wrote:FYI, If you search for Fortune 500 you will typically just get a US based list of companies. Search for Global 500 and this is what you would see for 2014

1. Wal-Mart - US
2. Shell - Dutch (Incorp in the UK)
3. Sinpoec - China
4. China National Petroleum - China
5. Exxon Mobil - US
6. BP - UK
7. State Grid - China
8. Volkswagen - Germany
9. Toyota - Japan
10. Glencore - Swiss

That is not to say that there are more than enough US based companies with >$100B in yearly revenues that could afford F1. I hope we do not see a Wal-Mart disposable car, made in China on the cheap that will break down before the end of the first lap :mrgreen:
just a few points I would like to make

First- the Fortune 500 list is only for American companies, so not typically but always, also both list you speak of are from Fortune magazine and they put out the Global 500 list that you used

Second- I said " publicly traded companies" your list 'Global 500' has State Grid and China National Petroleum, Both owned by the Chinese Govt. now the latter has a subsidiary that is a publicly traded company called PetroChina they would be on your list at #7 $380 billion in revenue

Thirdly- the Global 500 list you have is based on revenues and not market capitalization which is used to represent the valuation of a publicly traded company.
Wal-Mart is tops on your list with $476.3 billion in revenue but shows a profit of $160 billion, now in terms of market cap Wal-Mart is valued today at $276.5 billion that puts them at 9th on this list

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Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Haas - American team in F1

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So, regulation changes for 2017 but perhaps as soon as 2016. Not good news for HAAS imho!

Haas is eyeing entering the grid in 2016. They'll use Ferrari parts and have dallara construct a chassis for them.
It'll cost them a small fortune, but the problem here is the proposed changes from 2017. I can't see HAAS enjoying
or taking it lightly when he is going to spend a significant amount of $$ to plant a car on the 2016 grid which he
can simply throw in the trash 1 year after because of the huge format change :wtf:

IMHO, it's not fair at all for HAAS. Despite i still have serious doubts on the HAAS F1 foray, what I do believe is HAAS
should be given a FAIR chance at F1. Having them enter F1 in 2016 which will cost them a good amount of money with
the prospect of doing it all for nothing as the 2017 season will change significantly is imho total insanity and above all
seriously unfair.

Because of that, i'd say they'd better start with these changes in 2016 already, Haas hasn't got Dallara building their car
I assume, so they'd be just in time to cope with the changes.

At the same time, it's insane to suddenly come up with this change and present it so soon. What's happening to F1?!
Like this, there can only be more teams drowing in the costs. I could even see Haas saying "yeah, screw it you guys, you can take your lunatic late minute changes and shove them where the light don't shine" and just slam some Haas logos sponsoring some stable and existing F1 teams. Toro Rosso for example. Williams.

Wasn't Haas a tad annoyed already on the recent developments in F1 which ushered in the end of Marussia and Caterham and have Sauber, Force India and Lotus balancing on a thin cord above the pit of demise?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

acosmichippo
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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I have to imagine that the possibility for huge regulation changes has to be part of the business plan unless you have it guaranteed writing somewhere, which we know would never happen for a small team like Haas. Sure, they were probably hoping for regulation stability for a while, but I doubt they *assumed* it.

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bdr529
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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acosmichippo wrote:
Moxie wrote:On a lighter note...Oscar Meyer is a prominent American brand which has a logo with a lot of yellow. I'd love to see an F1 weinermobile.
That ship has sailed. Their perfect opportunity was 2014.
The Wienermobile had a little trouble leaving the dock last week
" hello 911, yeah I lost control of my wiener"
Image
http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/os ... ash-021615

Gatecrasher
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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I agree bdr529, there are many ways to measure which companies are really at the top. The bottom line however is which ones, with cash, not just revenues or Market Cap would benefit from F1.

Most companies on those lists don't need F1 and spending shareholders cash on it would not make sense.

The real question in F1 and specifically in this topic for HAAS, is the money they are about to spend more or less than it is worth. How many extra CNC lathes would he have to sell. Since HAAS is a private company it is difficult to tell what his profits are vs revenue.

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bdr529
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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Gatecrasher wrote:I agree bdr529, there are many ways to measure which companies are really at the top. The bottom line however is which ones, with cash, not just revenues or Market Cap would benefit from F1.

Most companies on those lists don't need F1 and spending shareholders cash on it would not make sense.

The real question in F1 and specifically in this topic for HAAS, is the money they are about to spend more or less than it is worth. How many extra CNC lathes would he have to sell. Since HAAS is a private company it is difficult to tell what his profits are vs revenue.
Quick explanation of market capitalization : the price of one share multiplied by the total number of shares the company has
1 share = $12 x 1.5 million shares = $18 million that's the value of the company.
now companies like Ferrari, Coke have huge brand value $$$$, but that is already built into their share price, and any extra would only come if someone was buying the controlling interest in a company, ok that's enough financial talk.

As for Haas owning a F1 team so he can promote his CNC equipment dose seem a little crazy, Let's look at it in 2 parts.

First: not just owning a F1 team but starting one from scratch, there has to be some connection whether it's technical advancements, financial benefits, could be in the form of tax right offs, gov't grants for business capital. I don't know, there has to be something more then just his money and bravado. other wise just sponsor a team

Second: Using Formula 1 to advertising ( sponsor ) CNC machines, essential business to business, this is not new to F1
My families coatings company had been buying black carbon powder form Hercules for years, and up till 1981, I'd say 99% of F1 fans had no clue who or what Hercules did, the sponsorship and logos on the car were never intended for the average guy
Image


kellogg needs to advertises a box of cereal, at the same time the company that makes the machine that folds the cardboard into a box, puts the cereal in and closes the box needs to advertise this machine (product) also. a lot of companies finial product or service is just some other companies raw material or production equipment.

Which brings us back to CNC machines, from experience I knew it was big business but after a little research I can safely say I had no clue to how big this industry real is. Just how big?, there's a trade show next week in Leipzig Germany, over 170 companies will display their CNC machines including Haas Automation, in fact over the next 6 weeks Haas has a trade show in Mexico, Taiwan, USA and China. so there is defiantly a need for Haas to advertise his company and their products. and I assume he thinks this will make them stand out from the rest of his competitors. something more then trade shows and industry magazines .

We tend to think of ourselves as the finial consumer because of all the tv/radio,billboard/print media ads we see everyday.
which is why I'm not surprised that no one has noticed there already is a CNC manufactor using top flight motorsports to promote their business

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FW17
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Re: Haas - American team in F1

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PlatinumZealot
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Photoshopped McLaren?
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