What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
QinetiQ
0
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 13:18

What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

Sorry if this has already has been discussed, I could find anything on this topic

Anyway, as title suggest, what do they benefit from participating in the pinnacle of motorsports? The last team doesn't even get any prize money at the end of the season and the $14 million that the second to last team gets only covers a fraction of what they've spent. They haven't got any road car production lines to justify the participation for technology development. Even more, what do their sponsors benefit when the only time you see those cars are when the race leader lap them over and over again. Been wondering lately...

User avatar
Shrieker
13
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

The prospect of moving up the grid ? It's like the lottery, you need to buy the ticket to hit the jackpot. Without running in F1, you don't even have the prospect of moving up. That's my take on it, curious to hear what others will say tho.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

User avatar
Racer X
8
Joined: 21 Apr 2013, 19:04

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

I agree take the history of Force India as an example they wen from backmarker to Running at the top of the midfield now. I think Caterham as much as Marrusia wish to compete as much as Williams and eventually be like McLaren.. specially both Caterham and Marussia I mean they both make produce road cars..
RedBull Racing Checo//PEREZ

QinetiQ
0
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 13:18

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

Yeah but unless you have solid funding you don't really stand much of chance. I agree about Force India but they got it together and were fighting for points in their second year. Now how long have Marussia and Caterham been dragging their asses at the back of the pack?

Moxie
5
Joined: 06 Oct 2013, 20:58

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

I think there is an ego component as well.

QinetiQ
0
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 13:18

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

But you're last, what kind of ego can you have? There has to be something to back that ego up.

Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

Way it was explained to me once is you battle to be the best of your tier (say there's a top tier, mid tier, and bottom tier). If you're "best in class" you can secure some more talent and sponsor money and move up. Are Caterham looking to win the WDC and will be heartbroken if they don't? No.. I doubt that. But they'll probably be trying to have success in their "division" to try to claw their way up. Does it take a while? Yes. If you're going to invest in starting a F1 team you need to have some at least medium-term commitment to see things through.

Force India are doing pretty reasonably well. Did they score points in their second year? Yes and no. Their second year of being called FI, but don't forget that's a long lineage.. previously having been Spyker, Midland, Jordan - so originally starting up in 1991! When ownership changes over it's not a complete "burn everything to the ground" operation.

Or take Red Bull, previously Jag, previously Stewart (going back to 1997). That's a long lineage of middling performance before dominating. Williams F1.. after the good years in the 90's they'd been so-so for a long time (and without huge budget) but I'd say have recently been pretty decent.

Ultimately - what does anyone benefit from being in F1? Immense expenditure of cash and man hours to go round and round and back to the same spot over a few hours. People do racing because they enjoy it. Many engineers sure as hell aren't getting rich off the sport, that's for sure. A lot make surprisingly low pay. But if they enjoy doing it and it at least pays the bills - then great!
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

Moxie
5
Joined: 06 Oct 2013, 20:58

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

QinetiQ wrote:But you're last, what kind of ego can you have? There has to be something to back that ego up.
Ego just to own an F1 team in the first place. An extravagant display of wealth. Last on the grid or not, an F1 owner is telling the world he has a big boy bank account.

flyboy2160
84
Joined: 25 Apr 2011, 17:05

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

I don't want a flame war to start here - this is a valid topic to discuss. I've disapproved/deleted a blatantly disrespectful post. X's comment can't objectively be taken automatically as disrespectful. So please, just calm down and don't over-react.

ChrisM40
1
Joined: 16 Mar 2014, 21:55

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

I would say most teams do it for the love of the sport. They all want to win, but for most just competing is enough.

Heikki Kovalainen said on this twitter that he doesn't want to race in another formula, he wants to be in F1, whether in a winning position or not. Losing in F1 is better for him than winning in, say WEC. Speaks volumes.

Not sure about the backers, sponsors. I suppose any exposure is valuable, but then I question the value of most advertising, which to be seems like annoying, intrusive begging most of the time.

QinetiQ
0
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 13:18

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

ChrisM40 wrote:I would say most teams do it for the love of the sport. They all want to win, but for most just competing is enough.

Heikki Kovalainen said on this twitter that he doesn't want to race in another formula, he wants to be in F1, whether in a winning position or not. Losing in F1 is better for him than winning in, say WEC. Speaks volumes.

Not sure about the backers, sponsors. I suppose any exposure is valuable, but then I question the value of most advertising, which to be seems like annoying, intrusive begging most of the time.
Be that as it may, I'm sure you can find plenty of things that you will enjoy more and cost you less. Am talking luxury things. Cars, boats, trips etc.

Only way I'd be enjoying spending that kind of money on an F1 team is if I was behind the wheel. Drivers are just another cost, they don't put a penny in the teams.

I'm sure there are plenty of reason if those teams ride along for so long but I'm just not sure what are they

ChrisM40
1
Joined: 16 Mar 2014, 21:55

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

QinetiQ wrote:
Be that as it may, I'm sure you can find plenty of things that you will enjoy more and cost you less. Am talking luxury things. Cars, boats, trips etc.
Not if you are an F1 fan..

xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

QinetiQ wrote:Sorry if this has already has been discussed, I could find anything on this topic
...
That's ok, how could you possibly know, as it's you first day on the forum.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

User avatar
AnthonyG
38
Joined: 03 Mar 2012, 13:16

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

I think a general(there are exceptions) rule can be put that teams who are up front are the teams who benefit the most from f1 (duh), but I also think the fact that they can benefit from f1 means that they're going to be a front runner. As in the potential to benefit comes before the actual performance of becomming a front runner.
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

User avatar
Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: What do back-markers benefit from being in F1?

Post

I think Marussia gets money. They have sponsors that they wouldn't have if the were running in another championship. They also get the technology. They are a relatively small firm that is able to run McLaren wind tunnel, to get money from a partner like Virgin, Marussia or RBC. Their sales have increased significantly since they entered F1.

It's the same story (albeit a 'smaller' one) of Ferrari.

Caterham has a similar tale, I'd say: from a small firm in Caterham, Surrey, UK, to the greatest races in the world is a good business to me. There are literally hundreds of firms struggling in the sporting car category, from tuners to makers.

What are you going to tell your grandchildre? That you fixed cars or that you competed (against all odds) with the best? That, my friend, it's the greatest benefit of all. Nobody can take you that away from you.

I can only imagine the feelings of the owner in the first race. Pause for a second, close your eyes and imagine yourself in that position. Would you dare? Sure you would.

It's a nice history to tell your shareholders when you can benefit from having an interest in first rate drivers. That can be good, solid business, like many people in soccer can tell you.

For example, Ricciardo started in HRT.

You also attract, without doubt, better engineers, at least way better than the ones you would get if you continue your small shop factory that participate only in smaller categories. They also contribute to your business.

Finally, if everything goes wrong, you still have the "insurance" money of your slot.

Sure, it's not the same as being McLaren.

However, capitalism is based in investing (and forgetting you ever had) a capital.

You have to risk it and find out if you can retire with your earnings. That can be done in two ways:

Either you invest in a small risk, low yield business, like salt, whose market is constant, competition is fierce and returns small but almost guaranteed OR you compete in high stakes, high yield business, like a Hollywood film.

So, F1 is a high risk, possibly high yield business.

So, I'd say, only in capitalism this kind of risky business are justified.

It's, as everything in life, a bet... and allow me to put it in this way: if you have to bet, it's way better to bet high stakes games than in small stakes, small returning ones.

If you have to overcome your shame to ask a girl to go out with you, no matter how ugly, small, uninteresting you are, it's way better to ask the most beautiful, charming and sweetest girl you know.

This may prove my point: you never know when you're going to get the bling. If you do, it's better with Lafawnduh.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSchRtgnvKE[/youtube]

So, try to call Kip (or Marussia) a backmarker: he's (it's) a winner in my book.

What some people call "ego" I call "self-confidence". What some people call "big wallets" I call "audacity".

Go, Kip! Go, Pedro! Go, Caterham!
Ciro

Post Reply