Engine Unfreeze

[Richard]

Why are they using tokens before the engine is homogilated? My pea brain is finding it hard to follow this. Can't wait for Ted or Martin to explain it all.

Why can't they bring the new 2015 engine with all the new stuff and keep the tokens for upgrades during the season?

The existing engines were homologated on 28 Feb 2014. After that, they can be modified within the limits of the tokens for each calendar year. Each token can be used at any time in the year. To be practical most tokens will be used for the first PU on track in Melbourne, but some might be held back to modify the PU in one of the 4 PU changes during the season.

• The PU used in 2015 will be the 2014 PU plus modifications during the year using the 2015 tokens
• In 2016 the PU will be a 2014 PU with 2015 modifications plus additional modifications during the year using the 2016 tokens.
• In 2017 the PU will be a 2014 PU with 2015 and 2016 modifications plus additional modifications during the year using the 2017 tokens.

[Vettel Maggot]

And you wonder why F1 is dying. PU's, ICE's MGUH, DRS, tokens etc

For God's sake.

How can you explain all this to newcomers/casual observers.

[Moose]

And you wonder why F1 is dying. PU's, ICE's MGUH, DRS, tokens etc

For God's sake.

How can you explain all this to newcomers/casual observers.

The same way you did with just an ICE - "when the driver pushes the loud pedal, the car goes faster".

[poolboy67]

if you change 50% of an engine, i would count that as a new engine.

bmw m10 engine shared about 70% of it's parts and designs with the m40 engine, yet the m40 is concidered a completely different engine.

[diffuser]

And you wonder why F1 is dying. PU's, ICE's MGUH, DRS, tokens etc

For God's sake.

How can you explain all this to newcomers/casual observers.

F1 isn't even close to dieing.

The reason why the numbers are down is cause there has been little competition. The ratings tend to go up when the points are closer.

In 2012 there was 180 points between 4th place Lotus and 1st place RBR. Last year there was close to 500 Points (More points difference than RBR had points in 2012). There was about 100 points difference from 1st to 6th in the WDC in 2012, over 220 last year. In 2014 the difference from 1st to 3ird in Qualifying was often 1 second or more, In 2012 it was between .2 to .5.

In Sports, if the result aren't in doubt people loose interest.

[ParkerArt]

And you wonder why F1 is dying. PU's, ICE's MGUH, DRS, tokens etc

For God's sake.

How can you explain all this to newcomers/casual observers.

It wouldn't have anything to do with the diametrically opposed issues that F1 faces...

Look at races before the Pirelli were brought in. Cars that weren't at least 0.5 seconds faster per lap COULD NOT pass cars ahead of them. With the removal of refueling and the durable Bridgestone tires, it was a sad game of Follow the Leader were qualifying was the race. It was to the extent that the FiA exclusively used Tilke to design tracks to promote more overtaking with long straights for aero drafting followed by heavy braking for slow apex corners.

Now, look at the start of the 2012 season. Complete nonsense tires that did not work with how teams had set up their cars. It took 8 damned races to have a first repeat winner. Some people thought that was amazing, while other people, myself included, thought it was a complete and utter joke.

It also wouldn't have anything to do with CVC/F1 not changing to meet the expectations of the times. The main broadcaster became a paid service for the UK and even more expensive for people world wide. I live in Canada and I only watch TV from streams of downloads. Why would I pay X amount of money to watch a few TV shows with commercials when Netflix (as an example) is shown in high quality, commercial free and whenever I want to watch it?

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of technology; why isn't there a legal stream of every race that I can subscribe to? F1 tosses around BILLIONS of dollars, why can't they put the infrastructure in place to stream a 1080p broadcast for people that don't live in the UK and/or don't have cable television? I would gladly write a cheque, written in my own blood to Bernie, for ~$100 to legally and conveniently watch the whole season plus testing.

I can watch the whole damned 24 Hours of LeMans, 'most' WEC races, TUSC races and whatever TV shows I want online for either free or very little money; however, since I'm not the market demographic to buy a Rolex watch, Bernie and Co. would rather to keep losing viewers where the season is a foregone conclusion (most of 2011, 2013 and 2014) or where the artifical gimmicks are insultingly bad (beginning of 2012, banning DDDs, EBDs, FRIC and anything that wasn't a W05 in 2014).

[PlatinumZealot]

if you change 50% of an engine, i would count that as a new engine.

bmw m10 engine shared about 70% of it's parts and designs with the m40 engine, yet the m40 is concidered a completely different engine.

Not completely different because you can fit the formula parts to an m10 with some slight midifcations..
It is still an M10 engine block. You could remove the m10 engine from your BMW 2002, change it to a formula 1 engine, then put that same formula 1 engine back into your BMW 2002 and you wouldn't have to change your vehicle registration.

[Just_a_fan]

why can't they put the infrastructure in place to stream a 1080p broadcast for people that don't live in the UK and/or don't have cable television?

The UK doesn't get it much better - only half of the races are shown on non-subscription TV (even though the national broadcaster (which is effectively a subscription service because the law requires you to pay for a license) paid a fortune for the rights before selling them to Sky at a loss). If you want the full package of races plus everything else then you need to subscribe to Sky.

I'm with you - in the days when we can watch entire HD movies online the fact that F1 is still in the TV dark ages is infuriating. Bernie really doesn't understand the audience these days - Rolex buyers aren't the audience for most of F1's sponsors. Buyers of mobile phones etc. are. That's why Vodafone sponsors F1. And you can watch stuff on mobile phones. You know, Bernie, stuff like F1 races!

I'm surprised that Sky don't make the races available on a per-race basis. I'd pay a fiver for each race viewed online. Perhaps they're scared of losing core subscribers too...

[Vettel Maggot]

And you wonder why F1 is dying. PU's, ICE's MGUH, DRS, tokens etc

For God's sake.

How can you explain all this to newcomers/casual observers.

It wouldn't have anything to do with the diametrically opposed issues that F1 faces...

Look at races before the Pirelli were brought in. Cars that weren't at least 0.5 seconds faster per lap COULD NOT pass cars ahead of them. With the removal of refueling and the durable Bridgestone tires, it was a sad game of Follow the Leader were qualifying was the race. It was to the extent that the FiA exclusively used Tilke to design tracks to promote more overtaking with long straights for aero drafting followed by heavy braking for slow apex corners.

Now, look at the start of the 2012 season. Complete nonsense tires that did not work with how teams had set up their cars. It took 8 damned races to have a first repeat winner. Some people thought that was amazing, while other people, myself included, thought it was a complete and utter joke.

It also wouldn't have anything to do with CVC/F1 not changing to meet the expectations of the times. The main broadcaster became a paid service for the UK and even more expensive for people world wide. I live in Canada and I only watch TV from streams of downloads. Why would I pay X amount of money to watch a few TV shows with commercials when Netflix (as an example) is shown in high quality, commercial free and whenever I want to watch it?

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of technology; why isn't there a legal stream of every race that I can subscribe to? F1 tosses around BILLIONS of dollars, why can't they put the infrastructure in place to stream a 1080p broadcast for people that don't live in the UK and/or don't have cable television? I would gladly write a cheque, written in my own blood to Bernie, for ~$100 to legally and conveniently watch the whole season plus testing.

I can watch the whole damned 24 Hours of LeMans, 'most' WEC races, TUSC races and whatever TV shows I want online for either free or very little money; however, since I'm not the market demographic to buy a Rolex watch, Bernie and Co. would rather to keep losing viewers where the season is a foregone conclusion (most of 2011, 2013 and 2014) or where the artifical gimmicks are insultingly bad (beginning of 2012, banning DDDs, EBDs, FRIC and anything that wasn't a W05 in 2014).

I agree with you 100% actually. I get to watch the race and qualifying on free to air live (only in the last few years has quali actually been shown) and I too would gladly pay $100 a year to be able to watch all practice sessions and an extended broadcast.

Look at the Blancpain series, every race is uploaded to youtube so you can watch it at your leisure! They are all over social media, it seems crazy that F1 is not up to date with social media/younger fans.

Freezing engines last year was madness considering how new everything was, so they got a Merc parade for that decision. Yes it is expensive to develop engines throughout the season, but if they were worried about cost, why go to such a radical new engine formula? To appease a few manufacturers that can come and go in a few years anyway? This is indeed a big mess.

[diffuser]

This is way off topic.

[Gaara]

Question to Mattia Binotto: Is there a strategy of using the 2014 PU in the first rounds of the championship? or will Ferrari use its 2015 PU from the first race? and how many tokens did Ferrari use till now? Thank you

the 2014 PU can not be installed in the new SF15-T. no doubt we will start the season with our 2015 PU.
our objective, in term of tokens, is really to spend only few at the start fo the season, to maintain a significant opportunity of developments during the season. The current 2015 PU has already gain a significant amount of performance, and we will keep pushing during the entire season.

[iotar__]

Question to Mattia Binotto: Is there a strategy of using the 2014 PU in the first rounds of the championship? or will Ferrari use its 2015 PU from the first race? and how many tokens did Ferrari use till now? Thank you

the 2014 PU can not be installed in the new SF15-T. no doubt we will start the season with our 2015 PU.
our objective, in term of tokens, is really to spend only few at the start fo the season, to maintain a significant opportunity of developments during the season. The current 2015 PU has already gain a significant amount of performance, and we will keep pushing during the entire season.

So now it's more or less clear which team is benefiting from tailor made rules: "Renault says for the first race it has used the majority of the 32 development tokens that it has available, but will save some for updates later in the campaign." (Autosport)

Weird part was Ecclestone playing a good cop, acting as if he was behind another change of rules regarding tokens (average for Honda).

[giantfan10]

so which team is it tailor made for?
ferrari decided to save more tokens than renault.... they both say they have made significant gains
who knows which one is true or not
i'm not connecting the dots here... last i checked every single team that took part in the 2014 championship can do as they please with their tokens
can you clarify your post please?

[PlatinumZealot]

So Renault uses about 26 tokens.
Ferrari used less. Let us say 18 tokens.
Mercedes will use let us say 15 tokens.

That means an average remaining tokens of (6 + 14 + 17)/3 = 37/3 = 12 tokens that Honda can use throughout the season.

[lebesset]

will we know how many tokens each manufacturer has has at race 1 ?
obviously it will have to be declared to the FIA in order to inform honda what they have available to them
but what will be public knowledge ...how many and what were they ?