F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Blanchimont wrote: ...
I don't believe that the money spend on a F1 race stays on the bank accounts if a GP doesn't happen.
Xactly my sentiments Blanche, if you implement the tax return system in every walk of life, not much tax would be net paid.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Chase3009
Chase3009
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Joined: 02 Jul 2014, 18:30
Location: Austin, TX

Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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xpensive wrote:
Blanchimont wrote: ...
I don't believe that the money spend on a F1 race stays on the bank accounts if a GP doesn't happen.
Xactly my sentiments Blanche, if you implement the tax return system in every walk of life, not much tax would be net paid.
While what your saying is probably true. When you look at it from the local standpoint its much more about where that money is spent than if it is spent. It is more beneficial for the Austin and Texas areas for that money to be spent here than on a NASCAR race or at Disney.

Here is an article that was widely circulated locally in the days leading up to the USGP. It claims that the track (and the Formula 1 weekend in particular) have a much larger economic impact on the area than anything in the area.

http://www.statesman.com/news/business/ ... ederated=1

For those not familiar, SXSW is a massive music festival which has been a huge driving force behind the local economy for many years. While there are definitely tax dollars involved in getting F! here overall it has been a good investment for the local economy in our case.

Blanchimont
Blanchimont
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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This is how the ropes look like in Germany for free tv channel RTL. Currently the figures are below 5 mio viewers, Sky adds another ~0,4 mio.

Image
http://www.sportseconomics.org/sports-e ... -fans-away

Interesting chart for Britain
Image
http://f1broadcasting.wordpress.com/201 ... on-rights/
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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The graph I posted on previous page was even more illustrative I realiced at first.... I was searching a graph showing global audience but coudn´t find any, so posted this one wich is from Italy as an example

Image

But didn´t realice it´s from Italy and starts exactly the same seasson Ferrari/Schumacher domination began, but even so it start falling down from first seasson showed, despite tifossi´s should be all willing to watch Ferrari winning at least first four seassons

Hard to believe if you ask me, and should have fired some alarms on FIA´s headquarter, but looks like they´re fine with current route #-o

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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If alonso had won in 2012 it would have jumped immediately to the high mark in 2000.

Meanwhile, TV figures mean squad. I watch every f1 race but since it's behind the decoder i download it a couple hours
after it pops up as a SkySportsHD torrent. With me thousands and thousands.

So i won't pop up on the Dutch TV statistics. Didn't before either, for I've watched on BBC before. In other words; TV figures are not paramount.

Especially not the german and italian figures because it's not really a balanced view when both were pivotal in the championship. Schumacher [german] - Ferrari [italian].

British TV figures no doubt would have skyrocketed back with lewis and in 2009 with Button.

And frankly, FIA has no dealing nor interest with Television rates, at all. Never has, never will be.
The entertainment part is Bernie's responsibility. So i don't get why FIA at any point should be either worried or feels the need to change anything, at all.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Töm87
Töm87
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Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 11:25

Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Manoah2u wrote:If alonso had won in 2012 it would have jumped immediately to the high mark in 2000.

Meanwhile, TV figures mean squad. I watch every f1 race but since it's behind the decoder i download it a couple hours
after it pops up as a SkySportsHD torrent. With me thousands and thousands.

So i won't pop up on the Dutch TV statistics. Didn't before either, for I've watched on BBC before. In other words; TV figures are not paramount.

Especially not the german and italian figures because it's not really a balanced view when both were pivotal in the championship. Schumacher [german] - Ferrari [italian].

British TV figures no doubt would have skyrocketed back with lewis and in 2009 with Button.

And frankly, FIA has no dealing nor interest with Television rates, at all. Never has, never will be.
The entertainment part is Bernie's responsibility. So i don't get why FIA at any point should be either worried or feels the need to change anything, at all.

So what excactly is the goal/purpose of FIA then? Why exactly are they organizing racing series when they don't care about audience. Sorry but this doesn't make much sense.

Töm87
Töm87
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Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 11:25

Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Manoah2u wrote:If alonso had won in 2012 it would have jumped immediately to the high mark in 2000.

Meanwhile, TV figures mean squad. I watch every f1 race but since it's behind the decoder i download it a couple hours
after it pops up as a SkySportsHD torrent. With me thousands and thousands.

So i won't pop up on the Dutch TV statistics. Didn't before either, for I've watched on BBC before. In other words; TV figures are not paramount.

Especially not the german and italian figures because it's not really a balanced view when both were pivotal in the championship. Schumacher [german] - Ferrari [italian].

British TV figures no doubt would have skyrocketed back with lewis and in 2009 with Button.

And frankly, FIA has no dealing nor interest with Television rates, at all. Never has, never will be.
The entertainment part is Bernie's responsibility. So i don't get why FIA at any point should be either worried or feels the need to change anything, at all.
Then how come TV ratings were much more higher when Schumacher dominated compared to when Vettel had his super years. Especially when you consider that Vettel is much liked among all Germans than Schumacher?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Töm87 wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:
FIA has no dealing nor interest with Television rates, at all. Never has, never will be.
The entertainment part is Bernie's responsibility. So i don't get why FIA at any point should be either worried or feels the need to change anything, at all.

So what excactly is the goal/purpose of FIA then? Why exactly are they organizing racing series when they don't care about audience. Sorry but this doesn't make much sense.
It makes all the sense. first of all, you skip the Bernie's responsibility part. That is regards to audience. You confuse public entertainment with the actual racing. there are many forms of racing that get zero media attention but still get organised.

How many people actually watch (live) GP2? How many tv viewers do they have? You think FIA cares? they don't.

what FIA does? :roll:

sorry, but don't you have internet?

http://www.fia.com

About the FIA
The FIA is the governing body for world motor sport and the federation of the world’s leading motoring organisations.

Founded in 1904, with headquarters in Paris, the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) is a non-profit making association. It brings together 236 national motoring and sporting organisations from 141 countries on five continents. Its member clubs represent millions of motorists and their families.

One of the core responsibilities of the FIA is the development of motor sport worldwide. Through its national member clubs the FIA is involved in every level of motor sport and its remit extends to the millions of amateurs and professionals who enjoy motor sport in all of its variety.

The FIA has been dedicated to representing the rights of motoring organisations and motor car users throughout the world via campaigns and activities that defend their interests. On issues such as safety, mobility, the environment and consumer law the FIA actively promotes the interests of motorists at the United Nations, within the European Union and through other international bodies.

The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport including the FIA Formula One World Championship, FIA World Rally Championship, FIA World Touring Car Championship and FIA World Endurance Championship.
* before somebody get's their panties in a bunch:
A non-profit association doesn't mean they do things for free. Even more, the designation as a nonprofit does not mean that the organization does not intend to make a profit, but rather that the organization has no owners and that the funds realized in the operation of the organization will not be used to benefit any owners.

Simply put, money going to FIA is intended to pay for the costs involved. If for example the FIA president has a salary of 100.000 dollars a year, then this is generally the 'cost' of the service he provides. You could argue he 'benefit's from this job, but that's not how it works, and not relevant to this thread.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9d%C ... Automobile

Headquartered at 8, Place de la Concorde, Paris, the FIA consists of 213 national member organisations in 125 countries worldwide [ hence the Concorde Agreement, for those who were unaware to why it's called 'Concorde']

Its most prominent role is in the licensing and arbitration of Formula One and World Rally Championship motor racing

The President coordinates the activities of the Federation and proposes resolutions to the various commissions and committees. The President also acts as the representative of the FIA to external organisations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One

FIA Formula One World Championship..... is sanctioned by the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA)
The racing drivers, constructor teams, track officials, organisers, and circuits are required to be holders of valid Super Licences, the highest class of racing licence issued by the FIA.

Beginning in the 1970s, Bernie Ecclestone rearranged the management of Formula One's commercial rights; he is widely credited with transforming the sport into the multi billion-dollar business it is now.

The formation of the (FISA) during 1979 set off the FISA–FOCA controversy, during which FISA and its president Jean-Marie Balestre disputed repeatedly with FOCA over television revenues and technical regulations. The result was the 1981 Concorde Agreement, which guaranteed technical stability, as teams were to be given reasonable notice of new regulations

FIA is responsible for making rules to combat the spiralling costs of Formula One racing and for ensuring the sport remains as safe as possible. To this end the FIA have instituted a number of rule changes, including new tyre restrictions, multi-race engines, and reductions on downforce. Safety and cost have traditionally been paramount in all rule-change discussions. More recently the FIA has added efficiency to its priorities.

In the interest of making the sport truer to its role as a World Championship, FOM president Bernie Ecclestone has initiated and organised a number of Grands Prix in new countries
FIA does not care whether germany has 1 million or 10 million viewers. FIA does not care whether italy has 1 million viewers or 10 million viewers. FIA does not care whether there are 10 million viewers worldwide or 100 million viewers worldwide.

FIA does not care because it's not FIA's job to care. FIA organises and governs the F1 races. In other words; It recognises a class of formula to exist and it organises events so its existance can be maintained by providing the neccesecity for their existance; race events. In the meanwhile, it comes paired with governing so that there are fair rules existant and that participators comply with these regulations, which includes safety.

F1 PROMOTION is a whole other piece of cake and that is organised by Bernie ecclestone.
Bernie makes F1 [highly] profitable and Bernie is the one who handles the promotion. Bernie owns the television rights, well, through CVC, but basically Bernie is the man who controls the strings.

TV figures going down and less viewers thus is something Bernie Ecclestone worries about. IF he worries about it, and if he doesn't, he has his reasons for this.

Like it or not, it's Bernie's job, not FIA's.

again; never has, never will.

It makes sense if you actually know about it. You could have used google to know this instead of stating it doesn't make any sense - because it does make sense.
Last edited by Manoah2u on 19 Nov 2014, 01:13, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Who do you think the commercial rights belong to Manoah?

Sure isn't Bernie or CVC. Bernie leased them out from the FIA due to Max's sham deal.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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GitanesBlondes wrote:Who do you think the commercial rights belong to Manoah?

Sure isn't Bernie or CVC. Bernie leased them out from the FIA due to Max's sham deal.
Actually, Formula 1's commercial rights holder IS Bernie Ecclestone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_Group
The Formula One Group is a group of companies responsible for the promotion of the FIA Formula One World Championship and exploitation of the sport's commercial rights. Bernie Ecclestone, a former Formula One team boss, has run the company since gaining control of the commercial rights. The Group is owned ultimately by Delta Topco, a Jersey–based company owned primarily by investment companies CVC Capital Partners, Waddell & Reed, and LBI Group, with the remaining ownership split between Bernie Ecclestone, other investment companies and company directors.
Bernie GAINED control, way back in the late 70's, early 80's.

Since the discussion in this thread is about F1 since somewhere 2000 [as if it didn't exist before], there is no reason to discuss whether the FIA had interest in F1 TV coverage in the 60's and 70's.

The point simply is; FIA does not care about F1's TV coverage and view ratings. It has no intend of making F1 richer.
If any, it's goal is to make F1 cheaper and more affordable for participators, not for viewers.
Last edited by Manoah2u on 19 Nov 2014, 01:21, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Stop quoting Wikipedia, it's not a reliable source much as you wish it to be.

Again, he LEASED the rights for 100 years, at which the rights revert back to the FIA.

If he OWNED the rights, he would not only have them for 100 years.

Leasing is temporary, owning is indefinite.

Definition of lease:
a contract by which one party conveys land, property, services, etc., to another for a specified time, usually in return for a periodic payment.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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GitanesBlondes wrote:Stop quoting Wikipedia, it's not a reliable source much as you wish it to be.

Again, he LEASED the rights for 100 years, at which the rights revert back to the FIA.

If he OWNED the rights, he would not only have them for 100 years.

Leasing is temporary, owning is indefinite.

Definition of lease:
a contract by which one party conveys land, property, services, etc., to another for a specified time, usually in return for a periodic payment.
then show me the lease, and show some source about this leasing.

Quoting Wikipedia is not a reliable source? Yeah it's not reliable for little local music bands.

Wikipedia actually states directly what FIA themselves state about themselves. so does the FOTA, so does the FOM.
Surely you aren't going to tell me that in reality Schumacher is 12 times WDC and Wiki only says he got 7?

So how about you show us some sources about the lease with some proof?

and does it really matter? if it's leased, then until the lease ends, the FIA does not care how they get their money.
FIA would still not care if nobody watched F1. The lease contract then simply would demand bernie to bring the FIA money. how he gets that money is not their concern.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Manoah think about this, if he OWNED the rights, it wouldn't be for 100 years, it would not have a time frame attached to it.

The FIA has leased the commercial rights to Bernie since 1981, only the last deal the FIA did gave it to him for 100 years instead of a smaller window.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

Chase3009
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Location: Austin, TX

Re: F1 on the ropes... and I don't even care.

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Manoah2u wrote:
GitanesBlondes wrote:Stop quoting Wikipedia, it's not a reliable source much as you wish it to be.

Again, he LEASED the rights for 100 years, at which the rights revert back to the FIA.

If he OWNED the rights, he would not only have them for 100 years.

Leasing is temporary, owning is indefinite.

Definition of lease:
a contract by which one party conveys land, property, services, etc., to another for a specified time, usually in return for a periodic payment.
then show me the lease, and show some source about this leasing.

Quoting Wikipedia is not a reliable source? Yeah it's not reliable for little local music bands.

Wikipedia actually states directly what FIA themselves state about themselves. so does the FOTA, so does the FOM.
Surely you aren't going to tell me that in reality Schumacher is 12 times WDC and Wiki only says he got 7?

So how about you show us some sources about the lease with some proof?

and does it really matter? if it's leased, then until the lease ends, the FIA does not care how they get their money.
FIA would still not care if nobody watched F1. The lease contract then simply would demand bernie to bring the FIA money. how he gets that money is not their concern.
Google is your friend.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns02497.html
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/story/ ... 58,00.html

Theres just a couple for you. There are hundreds more articles on it if you feel so inclined to look for them. This should be common knowledge. He doesn't own the commercial rights but he has a stranglehold on them for a long time.