Return Of The Mighty V-10?

[Moose]

No not the generator but the compressor, the energy would be harvested only from braking and used as KERS or forced induction. Introduce higher revs and fuel flow and you get the lost power back, retain hybrid for marketing and make a lot of attractive noise.

1) That's KERS, not HERS - no heat is being recovered in this system.
2) Why would you put the energy into driving a compressor, rather than straight into the transmission - all you're doing is wasting energy through efficiency loss, and making the car heavier than it needs to be.

[toraabe]

Just forget all about screaming v10. That is history. Finito. Basically all car manufacturers are using some sort of supercharging in their sportcars nowdays. F1 needs to be the leading factor in engine development, hence the current engine formula. If 2016 turns out to throw the current engines on the scrapyard, both Honda and Mercedes definitely will pull out. No doubt. SO then Renault and Ferrari will remain with their 8 cars. Is that what we want ?. No. The solution is that Renault and Ferrari need to get their hands together and build an engine with equally performance to Mercedes. They should have started that process in April. They knew in Australia that the power deficit was massive. In almost 11 months you should be able more or less be able to catch up... ( April to 28. Feb )

[dmjunqueira]

Just forget all about screaming v10. That is history. Finito. Basically all car manufacturers are using some sort of supercharging in their sportcars nowdays. F1 needs to be the leading factor in engine development, hence the current engine formula. If 2016 turns out to throw the current engines on the scrapyard, both Honda and Mercedes definitely will pull out. No doubt. SO then Renault and Ferrari will remain with their 8 cars. Is that what we want ?. No. The solution is that Renault and Ferrari need to get their hands together and build an engine with equally performance to Mercedes. They should have started that process in April. They knew in Australia that the power deficit was massive. In almost 11 months you should be able more or less be able to catch up... ( April to 28. Feb )

Totally agreed.
I understand that, for a lot of reasons, not everybody likes the current engine...But there is no turning back.
Bernie is slowly killing the sport with his stupid mindset; and If he brings the V10's back, the sport will be finally dead.
IMHO, they need to do split the money fairly between teams, and allow Ferrari and Renault to get closer enough from Mercedes PU performance.

[toraabe]

As you said, the income has to be fairly distributed between the teams. When it comes to Ferrari and Renault, they need to catch up as much as possible, but not on behalf of Mercedes. It's actually their problem how to minimize the deficit. How powerful the Honda PU will be, no one knows. In long terms all the PU's has to be fairly even, so all manufacturers are able to win races.

[turbof1]

You can't have equality, a degree of development freedom and competition all at once. One will work against an other.

[WaikeCU]

I honestly believe V10 should work. I think it should be scheduled for 2018 or 2019. If the Mclaren P1 has a V8 PU + an electric ECU motor, then I can't see why this can't be done with a V10. The LaFerrari has a V12 + electric motor + KERS. This is perhaps the first breed of these hybrid supercars. They have been released in 2014. So, in the following 4 years we could expect more of these kind of hybrid supercars. These hybrid supercars will become more and more efficient. So why can't it be done?

[mrluke]

I think there is no need to any limit in displacement or cylinders. Just keep the fuel flow limit and that's it.

Scrap the flow limit and keep refueling banned.

[Andres125sx]

I honestly believe V10 should work. I think it should be scheduled for 2018 or 2019. If the Mclaren P1 has a V8 PU + an electric ECU motor, then I can't see why this can't be done with a V10. The LaFerrari has a V12 + electric motor + KERS. This is perhaps the first breed of these hybrid supercars. They have been released in 2014. So, in the following 4 years we could expect more of these kind of hybrid supercars. These hybrid supercars will become more and more efficient. So why can't it be done?

It can be done, but here we´re talking about 6.3 and 3.8 engines, they´re not small ones exactly

F1 engines are 1.6 and V8 were 2.4. Let say P1 engine (V8 3.8 l) is the new trend, small turbo engine, as current V6 are for F1, while LaFerrari engine (V12 6.3l) is the old trend, big displacement and atmospheric, like V8 2.4 were for F1

I know nothing about engines, but you just need to compare some production engines data to realice how efficient turbo engines are, they provide more torque from very low rpm, they´re lighter, and they´re more efficient. I see no reason to continue using atmospheric engines, specially when old turbo problems (lag, reliability) are solved

[f1316]

The BBC numbers look nothing at all like the Italian numbers.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/ ... .40.46.png

As you can see, the BBC has seen a general upward trend in recent years, after a trough when Schumacher dominated the sport.

Interestingly, The BBC still averages between 6 and 7 times more viewers than Sky.

Based on this I'd argue that the Italian figures are more to do with the decline of Ferrari's fortunes than anything else.

This must be itv + bbc, no?

[PlatinumZealot]

You're moving the goalposts turboman, issue was if today's engines could be boosted to 1000 Hp, which they can't under these rules.

Oh but I never claimed the current rules are correct, did I? I feel the fuel flow limit is quite a disgrace. If you take the same rules as today and just remove the fuel flow limit, you'll get engines well beyond 1000bhp. They'll still be bound to the 100kg, so over a race they still need to be efficient. So mister Xhaustive, my only point was that the ERS are a good concept and never really are the problem here. It's the fuel flow that is hampering sounds, is hampering power and is the real nonsense since you still need to consider the 100kg fuel rule.

The engines are aluminum alloy whose fatigue life fails in comparison to Iron or steel. You will never get away with that much power density for so long. It is not as simple as just turning up the fuel and adding more boost and hoping the engine lasts 3,000 km. With 50% to 80% more power we are talking about a total redesign to all aspects of the engine block even the cooling channels and water pump. F1 engines are pretty much on the limit already material wise and dimension-wise. I see where you were going with this, but with the current engines I think you only have a good case for de-restricting in qualifying only.Having a handful of qualifying engines for the season that you know are gonna melt down after a few rounds.

[Moose]

The BBC numbers look nothing at all like the Italian numbers.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/ ... .40.46.png

As you can see, the BBC has seen a general upward trend in recent years, after a trough when Schumacher dominated the sport.

Interestingly, The BBC still averages between 6 and 7 times more viewers than Sky.

Based on this I'd argue that the Italian figures are more to do with the decline of Ferrari's fortunes than anything else.

This must be itv + bbc, no?

Yes, well spotted, this was listed as "British TV audience, minus sky", sky was listed seperately.

[WaikeCU]

I honestly believe V10 should work. I think it should be scheduled for 2018 or 2019. If the Mclaren P1 has a V8 PU + an electric ECU motor, then I can't see why this can't be done with a V10. The LaFerrari has a V12 + electric motor + KERS. This is perhaps the first breed of these hybrid supercars. They have been released in 2014. So, in the following 4 years we could expect more of these kind of hybrid supercars. These hybrid supercars will become more and more efficient. So why can't it be done?

It can be done, but here we´re talking about 6.3 and 3.8 engines, they´re not small ones exactly

F1 engines are 1.6 and V8 were 2.4. Let say P1 engine (V8 3.8 l) is the new trend, small turbo engine, as current V6 are for F1, while LaFerrari engine (V12 6.3l) is the old trend, big displacement and atmospheric, like V8 2.4 were for F1

I know nothing about engines, but you just need to compare some production engines data to realice how efficient turbo engines are, they provide more torque from very low rpm, they´re lighter, and they´re more efficient. I see no reason to continue using atmospheric engines, specially when old turbo problems (lag, reliability) are solved

We all have been proven wrong. 1.6 V6's producing over 500bhp + an ERS that's capable of adding 160bhp to a total of 750-760bhp is just beyond this world. It has been realized, but financially it has been immense investment to development such things. To realize something similar but with a V10 would be expensive too, but I think with the first step made in 2014 towards this new formula and the further development, tweaking and improvement in this area, the curve of expenses should be less steep if V10 hybrids would be introduced. Despite all of this, developing a V10 hybrid PU would still be a challenge, but I expect all of them to succeed.

[toraabe]

I just don't understand why we should go back 20 years to v12 or v10 ?. That's how it was in the past. Those engines are obsolete and lasted one weekend. I think even a turbocharged V4 ( like porsche ) as a stressed member will work. When it comes to how race cars sound like, this is my favorite.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjaJuAbdkw

[mrluke]

Just open up the regulation and let the teams chose. Then we will have the best solution rather than a nostalgic one and at least F1 can claim to be cutting edge.

You also let the manufacturers use things that are relevant to their brand, adding value to competing.

[ringo]

I just don't understand why we should go back 20 years to v12 or v10 ?. That's how it was in the past. Those engines are obsolete and lasted one weekend. I think even a turbocharged V4 ( like porsche ) as a stressed member will work. When it comes to how race cars sound like, this is my favorite.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjaJuAbdkw

They lasted one weekend because they were built that way.

Now i don't see how this can be considered old technology:..



Not because it doesn't have a turbo on it, it means it is prehistoric.

3.0 lt V10 with KERS hybrid, and front axle harvesting as well and there you go.