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If anything last year showed that Hamilton can grind out a long season to win after starting on the back foot. It also showed that Rosberg also has the guile to use whatever he can to keep the fight alive.
Anyway what happens isn't down to the drivers, it's how they are managed. I suspect Wolff will allow them to start the season head to head, but he's now much wiser about spotting & managing the tensions and conflicts. The answer to the thread lies in Wolff's hands, not the drivers.
ps - It's been great that the conversation hasn't descended to the broad brush generalizations and stereotypes (aka leg-humping) that we often see. Thanks.
Kingshark wrote:The one convincing enough reason to why Rosberg will not become a total #2 driver is fairly simple: He is too strong in qualifying.
Rosberg is one of the very few, if not the only driver on the grid who can out-qualify Hamilton on a regular basis.
As long as Rosberg keeps beating Lewis on a regular occurrence over one lap, Lewis will always be on the back foot on race day, and his work will be cut out for him on Sunday (he made it work in Japan and USA, but failed to do in Brazil).
I think Hamilton set up his car from the race from Silver-stone onward. It was very obvious. There was just too much of a difference in Race pace. Rosberg knows this, but at the same time he knows that is better to start in front of Lewis than behind him.
Or --- Hamilton was just better at managing, where as Rosberg was better in raw pace. In qualifying, it's about getting the tyres into the right temperature range and getting the most out of that singular lap. Here Rosberg was obviously very good. In the race however, it's about maintaining a pace that is good for tyre temperatures and wear. Here, Hamilton obviously was better, which was of course crucial over the entirety of an entire race. I'm not particularly convinced Hamilton simply set-up more for race. I personally think Rosberg is that quick - and I think Hamilton knows that too, which is why he was a bit irked when Rosberg got pole. Knowing he had a pace advantage in the race under full fuel loads perhaps made him less worried, but he couldn't have been too happy none-the-less.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
Regarding Horner's comments, it appears that he has become the new L di Montezemolo - as soon as things aren't going his team's way he wants changes to bring closer racing! Don't remember him wanting closer racing 2010-2013.
As for the OP question, I think it won't be as cut and dried as last year. I think Ferrari have made progress as have Williams. I think Bottas is quick and will, if he sees an opportunity, take the fight on.If Ferrari are closer and if the car suits the drivers, as seems likely from testing, then they'll be in the mix too.
It'll only take a non-Mercedes driver to get close and I can see Mercedes blinking. And that will probably result in internal politics and points lost to team mate rivalry.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Phil wrote:Or --- Hamilton was just better at managing, where as Rosberg was better in raw pace. In qualifying, it's about getting the tyres into the right temperature range and getting the most out of that singular lap. Here Rosberg was obviously very good. In the race however, it's about maintaining a pace that is good for tyre temperatures and wear. Here, Hamilton obviously was better, which was of course crucial over the entirety of an entire race. I'm not particularly convinced Hamilton simply set-up more for race. I personally think Rosberg is that quick - and I think Hamilton knows that too, which is why he was a bit irked when Rosberg got pole. Knowing he had a pace advantage in the race under full fuel loads perhaps made him less worried, but he couldn't have been too happy none-the-less.
how big a bet have you got on rosberg winning the qually battle this year phil ?
Last edited by lebesset on 04 Mar 2015, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
Heart or mind? My heart sais Hamilton, but truthfully, Rosberg has surprised - not only in 2014, but already in 2013. In 2014 what surprised me the most, was the kind of edge Rosberg seemed to have, especially in the dry. And that's not only on tracks that favoured Rosberg, but also tracks where I previously thought that Hamilton looked 'untouchable'. So... I really don't know. :S
I take it that Hamilton is very naturally gifted, but Rosbergs analytical approach to every single race can't be underestimated. He might have struggled in the race due to him being harder on tyres and fuel, but qualifying is still pretty much a test on getting the maximum out of one single lap. Hamilton might have been under pressure many times, also due to him being far behind in the WDC race, but he's also made quite a few mistakes in QF. I don't doubt for a second that Hamilton has the ability to stick it in front of his team-mate in every single QF, but if he will or not... well, that's rather dependant on how well he keeps it together, how focused he is and how comfortable he is in the car. I think Hamilton tends to fluctuate more vs. Rosberg, who is a driver with a very methodical approach. I think the latter will be more consistent.
I really don't know. Perhaps being Hamilton biased, I'm trying to keep my expectations in check by saying Rosberg...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II #Team44 supporter
Kingshark wrote:The one convincing enough reason to why Rosberg will not become a total #2 driver is fairly simple: He is too strong in qualifying.
Rosberg is one of the very few, if not the only driver on the grid who can out-qualify Hamilton on a regular basis.
As long as Rosberg keeps beating Lewis on a regular occurrence over one lap, Lewis will always be on the back foot on race day, and his work will be cut out for him on Sunday (he made it work in Japan and USA, but failed to do in Brazil).
I think Hamilton set up his car from the race from Silver-stone onward. It was very obvious. There was just too much of a difference in Race pace. Rosberg knows this, but at the same time he knows that is better to start in front of Lewis than behind him.
It's hard to believe here. Lewis got pole in Monza, Singapore and Sochi, these are after silverstone.
as i see it , having lost so much in Oz he decided to take a conserative line in qually , he knew that front row was good enough ; it wasn't good enough for rosberg , he needed pole to have a chance
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
Kingshark wrote:Excuses. Paddy Lowe said that both Mercedes drivers had identical set-ups in Suzuka, and Roserg smashed Hamilton in Q3.
Paddy might be referring to the fact that the drivers are running the same general configurations (parts), but the drivers themselves have both said they run different setups. Not to mention if you look at the radio transcripts to can see they make different changes during pit stops.
How different the setups are, is unknown it could be as small as one driver prefers a 1/4 turn more front wing.
Can this excuse be used for Rosberg as well? For instance, how do we know that Rosberg wasn't running a more race-oriented setup on weekends like Australia, Spain, Singapore and Russia? Likewise, what if the only reason to why Lewis was faster than Alonso over one lap was because he ran a more qualifying-oriented setup in 2007? How far does the "race setup" excuse run?
I remember how brilliantly Rosberg sandbagged around Abu Dhabi. His pace looked slow all weekend, in Q2 he was half a second slower than Lewis. Then in Q3 he improved by a whole second while everyone else could only find 2-3 tenths. He lured Lewis into a false sense of security, then pounced like a leopard.
Rosberg can be really special in races too, you know. Of course, I doubt anyone on here even cared about him before Schumacher and then Hamilton became his teammates.
Bahrain 2006
Brazil 2007
Melbourne 2008
Singapore 2008
Nurburgring 2009
Am I the only one around here who actually followed Rosberg in his Williams days? He showed his talent on so many occasions, in both qualifying and races.
I must admit that my long term memory of Rosberg over the years is always of someone who has shown some bursts of stunning speed but often seemed to fade away in races. Perhaps that was a result of him not being quite so "cut and thrust" in wheel-to-wheel racing as his team mates. That would make it look like someone was "doing a Trulli" I guess. He's obviously quick over a lap so not sure why this aspect of his racing seems to stick in the mind.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Imo, the biggest difference between the two, is the method they use to tune the car. Lewis uses his butt, and Nico uses brain. Lewis's method is faster, but might leave some pace in the car. Nico's method is better at extracting 100%, but takes longer.
Theoretically, Nico's method would be better for extracting 1 lap pace, and Lewis's would be better for the race, when you have to deal with changing track conditions, tire wear, fuel load etc.
I do feel Lewis started biasing his set-up towards the race, around Germany/Belgium last year. he had to, he was behind on points, and he knew Nico was the only person he was competing with.
The core difference though, is that they set-up/drive a car in fundamentally different ways.
Last edited by dans79 on 05 Mar 2015, 00:02, edited 1 time in total.
