Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Andres125sx
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:Instead of banning all sort of aero technologies they could try enforcing aero rules that do not create so much turbulence. That´s the way to go IMO
If the teams knew how to create turbulence free down force they'd do it! Turbulence means drag and drag is bad.
Obviously, but when they have to choose between high downforce with high drag, or low downforce with low drag the decision is obvious, downforce make cars much faster even if that brings high drag too

But FIA and rules can force them to keep turbulence on reasonable levels to improve racing. If that bring in reducing downforce ok, that´s what they´re doing with any new aero rule anycase so not a big problem. They could compensate partially removing some restriction (flat floor, EBD, DD, active aero...)

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:a couple of years ago people downtalked and laughed upon HRT/Hispania out in shame and hate for their 'unprofessionalism' running steel brakes instead of carbon brakes
:?: :?:

HRT run steel brakes?
yes, the car dallara delivered to them did not have carbon brakes. Hispania's 'predecessing' owners [ wasn't it Campos/Meta original? ] made late payments and low payments which resulted in Dallara not providing them the car untill they would be paid out. Meanwhile, when payments got in they were so late, they delivered them with no carbon brakes - steel brakes.
It got through scrutineering so it was 'acceptable' but i think that's enough to be said about it. Either way, they wouldn't have made the grid if they hadn't mounted those on.
There was a lot of mechanical parts that were of 'inferior' F1 quality materials. Several connecting rods, some lines, iirc the radiators were of very heavy materials, too. I know the wishbones were steel aswell.
In a sense this kinda surprises me because there are so many regulations regarding permitted materials - some can only be made out of carbon f.e. either way, i'm not sure whether this could happen today, 5 years afterwards, but it did happen in 2010 with Hispania.

They replaced them with carbon-keramic brakes after the first 4 races, saving 20kgs in weight.

I believe you can find some more info in the old Hispania F110 car thread.

Apart from that, i think it would be better if there was a rule on mandated brake replacements after a certain amount of miles under the belt. Remember HRT continued driving their completely worn brakes late in the what was it, 2012 season?
Rosberg surely remembers, he plummeted straight into the back of that dangerous car without decently working brakes.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
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while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Andres125sx
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Didn´t know, surprising!

This basically rule out the steel brakes idea. They´re not as effective as carbon ones but difference is not that high to make any noticeable difference.

sgth0mas
sgth0mas
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Andres125sx wrote:Didn´t know, surprising!

This basically rule out the steel brakes idea. They´re not as effective as carbon ones but difference is not that high to make any noticeable difference.
there are actually some major advantages of carbon brakes...did you mean to word it as of there was little difference between carbon and steel on an F1 car?

Just_a_fan
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Manoah2u wrote: I know the wishbones were steel aswell.
I know that Minardi used to run metal wishbones with a CF aero shroud; it's nothing new for a poor team to run "less glamorous" materials.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Manoah2u wrote: I know the wishbones were steel aswell.
I know that Minardi used to run metal wishbones with a CF aero shroud; it's nothing new for a poor team to run "less glamorous" materials.
yes, but again, i don't know if it could still happen today. Simply said, if it works, it works. And if it's safe enough, it's safe enough. However, I think having steel brakes 2015 is not the way to go, especially not to improve 'entertainment'. A car sliding all around is not safe. Remember Grosjean slamming through the field, and that was 'just' driver error through inadequate vision of the situation unfolding. Imagine how unsafe and dangerous it becomes when every car has steel brakes.
Just because Pastor Maldonado is in the field should be rule enough not to allow steel brakes.
Regarding safety, anything other than steel brakes imho is a no-go area. The sport needs to go forward, not backward.

There's enough to improve and learn, i was sceptic at first but i've grown to like the idea of 17/18" wheels especially because it would provide a whole new format and area of research and learning. Every driver will have to adapt to driving with these wheels and tires. New area for brake research, tire research, wheel manufacturer research, suspension possibilities, and lots of room for aero guys to work with, aswell as balance, wheel hubs, pit crew, etc.

There are a million ways to go. Playing with safety? no.
Least of all, it would turn F1 really into the level of Formula 3 or GP2. why even excist then?

meanwhile, people hate on Manor/Marussia for not having a full 2015-spec car ready and perhaps it won't come at all this year. They are a giant leap behind the back of the field in front of them, a whopping amount of seconds slower.
People are complaining about that F1 cars today are slow. And the Manors are quite a margin slower then the according to some already slow Mercs in front. Imagine how F1 cars would look and be accepted with steel brakes making them even slower.

Nah.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

J.A.W.
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Tim.Wright wrote:And what exactly has that got to do with the brakes?

I think its pretty clear who here has missed the point of the discussion.
Yeah, for sure - since "its pretty clear" that brakes are to - slowing down - what power is to - speeding up..

(Do refer to your most recent post in the Kart/weight of driver - thread).
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Tim.Wright
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Yes and I believe that both carbon and steel brakes can be adequately sized to lock the wheels and cope with the thermal loads.

Whats your point exactly?
Not the engineer at Force India

J.A.W.
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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" The carbon disc is the best for performance..." according to Brembo..

& clearly T.W., Brembo would know better than what you wishfully 'believe'..

(Check the link - in the final post - posted in the 2nd-to-last page of the Cars vs Bikes thread)

But beware, may contain Moto GP content.. L.O.L...
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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Tim.Wright
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Sorry mate but marketing material doesn't count of proof of anything. Especially from a manufacturer of Carbon brakes. That should be pretty obvious.

I've been avoiding the bike vs car thread. Its an absolute abortion from start to finish.
Not the engineer at Force India

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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I posted a direct (linked) quote T.W., & you post what you 'believe'- sans references.. & .. clearly not "going anywhere"..

( & - last time I looked at the Periodic Table, C showed certain dimensional related characteristics advantages - over Fe).

Think you'd probably best - "leave it there"..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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Andres125sx
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Re: Idea: ban carbon fiber brake discs?

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Manoah2u wrote: Just because Pastor Maldonado is in the field should be rule enough not to allow steel brakes.
LOL that was fun :lol: :lol: