Silly season 2016

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Jonnycraig
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Joined: 12 Apr 2013, 20:48

Re: Silly season 2016

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Cold Fussion wrote:
Jonnycraig wrote: Horner claimed he was burnt out and had private issues going on in the background and Webber has since said that Schumachers accident affected him deeply.
Webber and Vettel talked outside of Red Bull?
Yes. Webber said a few weeks ago that he & Vettel speak more often now than they ever did as teammates.

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pob
12
Joined: 04 Jul 2010, 05:00

Re: Silly season 2016

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Phil wrote:There are some teams that apparently do struggle to meet the minimum weight of the regulations - are these only some midfield teams like Sauber or is this an issue across the grid?
There were rumours last year that Raikkonen's Ferrari was well over the weight limit.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Silly season 2016

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Bottas to ferrari i think is unlikely. He hasn't shown to be better than Massa so far. If ferrari does pick him, it will be for a steady #2 for Vettel.
Hulk is the best pick or Perez. Button also is top choice for Ferrari, but i feel he may have seen enough of the sport to go outside of his comfort zone at mclaren.
For Sure!!

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Silly season 2016

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Kimi's seat is safe for a few more weekends it seems.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: Silly season 2016

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PlatinumZealot wrote:Kimi's seat is safe for a few more weekends it seems.
No it's not.

In this situation I believe the rumours. They are close to the deal with the assumption that Bottas has a contract with Williams and Ferrari needs to pay some get out clause money. IMO it's only matter of time and figuring the price, I think neither side will be pushing too hard and it will happen or already happened.

wickedz50
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013, 08:32

Re: Silly season 2016

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iotar__ wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:Kimi's seat is safe for a few more weekends it seems.
No it's not.

In this situation I believe the rumours. They are close to the deal with the assumption that Bottas has a contract with Williams and Ferrari needs to pay some get out clause money. IMO it's only matter of time and figuring the price, I think neither side will be pushing too hard and it will happen or already happened.
I feel the Bothas deal needs to be looked carefully in light of his current form and his potential. Kimi will be replaced sooner than later but whether Bothas will be the right replacement needs to be evaluated. Ferrari cannot make any fancy choice anymore. They have a good package now and focus and all efforts should be poured behind the development of the car to make it a championship material. Producing the quality car to win a championship with dominance like of Merc should be top priority. Current drivers are capable of good feedback and assist development. Kimi can stay for 2016 when Ferrari will be more competetive. Ferrari dont need Alonso kind genius driver to drive the skin out of a under performing car into championship contention because that will give the false picture of a great car and path to producing the best package will be lost.
Nothing personal towards Bothas but he is not my choice for a Kimi's replacement. Its definately Ricardo. Vettel will have first chance of winning a WDC with the team. Ferrari will win first after Merc in a year or 2. This is just a matter of time.

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: Silly season 2016

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wickedz50 wrote: I feel the Bothas deal needs to be looked carefully in light of his current form and his potential. Kimi will be replaced sooner than later but whether Bothas will be the right replacement needs to be evaluated. Ferrari cannot make any fancy choice anymore.
I don't want to repeat myself but (opinions):
- based on performance Raikkonen should be replaced mid-season and will be in 2016, I do believe replacing him with a fellow Finn makes it easier in marketing terms which are important
- Bottas is second best choice, slightly above all the others
- As for choices and looking carefully now, I doubt Ferrari does that so writing on the internet won't change their choice ;-), I would start with looking at both drivers but it's too late for that

Not quite an opinion:
- his current form is fine, Hungary may not be the perfect benchmark with Massa not getting the front wing but based on pace of others it was still an excellent race, Silverstone - see below, Austria - slightly unknown with yellow flags in Q and some issues, Canada - the opposite, very good but a bit of an unknown with Massa's problems and no competition

The part that bothers me and I think others is weird media coverage where he's treated as the only possible candidate (through rumours) and as if he's having 2012 Alonso season. Example: Silverstone and calls for team orders in his favour. He lost the qualifying, lost the start, was lucky with Hamilton losing position, couldn't overtake Massa when he was allowed, was slow in the wet and they weren't going to win this anyway. I missed FP and watched some Sky coverage in Hungary and they still talked about it there!? Hamilton - Rosberg '14 was considerably worse and I don't think they had problem with that lasting until the following GP :wtf: . This alternative reality that surrounds some drivers is what bothers me, it used to be like that against Maldonado too - only good news marketing.

wickedz50
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013, 08:32

Re: Silly season 2016

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If Ferrari is looking for a stop gap for a couple of years before Ricardo is free from RB then I am completely fine with Bothas or anyone as Kimi's replacement. Still several better drivers available in the market than Bothas. He is as unlucky as Kimi and Ferrari do not need one unlucky driver to replace another.

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Schuttelberg
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 12:02

Re: Silly season 2016

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If Nico Hulkenberg doesn't get the Ferrari seat based on 'marketing' reasons, it will be a pure travesty. Of all available options, (Grosjean, Bottas and Raikkonen) he seems to be on top of his game. I do believe that 'motivation' plays a sizable role in driver performance and I am convinced that after his Le Mans win something inside him is switched on. I also feel that if he is overlooked this time, he will probably quit F1. I don't see any reason for him to leave Force India and go to Haas F1.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

wickedz50
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013, 08:32

Re: Silly season 2016

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Schuttelberg wrote:If Nico Hulkenberg doesn't get the Ferrari seat based on 'marketing' reasons, it will be a pure travesty. Of all available options, (Grosjean, Bottas and Raikkonen) he seems to be on top of his game. I do believe that 'motivation' plays a sizable role in driver performance and I am convinced that after his Le Mans win something inside him is switched on. I also feel that if he is overlooked this time, he will probably quit F1. I don't see any reason for him to leave Force India and go to Haas F1.
Agree with your thoughts completely. Hulk should have been the first choice when Ferrari choose Kimi. If he is overlooked in 2016 its better for his career to make a move to Le Mans. The guy never got a chance in a quality car to show his skills.

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Schuttelberg
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 12:02

Re: Silly season 2016

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wickedz50 wrote:
Schuttelberg wrote:If Nico Hulkenberg doesn't get the Ferrari seat based on 'marketing' reasons, it will be a pure travesty. Of all available options, (Grosjean, Bottas and Raikkonen) he seems to be on top of his game. I do believe that 'motivation' plays a sizable role in driver performance and I am convinced that after his Le Mans win something inside him is switched on. I also feel that if he is overlooked this time, he will probably quit F1. I don't see any reason for him to leave Force India and go to Haas F1.
Agree with your thoughts completely. Hulk should have been the first choice when Ferrari choose Kimi. If he is overlooked in 2016 its better for his career to make a move to Le Mans. The guy never got a chance in a quality car to show his skills.
I think he could have been as far up as 2nd yesterday considering he was ahead of Kvyat when he crashed. Not to mention, Kvyat had 10 seconds added to his race time. So, unfortunately at the moment he's not recognized by team officials like Bottas or Ricciardo who've had podium capable cars. He beat Perez comfortably last year, but the one race it was possible to be on the podium saw Perez be on it. I don't think that such reasons should be sticking points but it seems like they matter because I can't think of more reasons as to why he isn't believed in. He's expected to beat Perez comfortably and he's been doing that regularly, but the 'glamorous result' in F1 always seems to evade him.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Jonnycraig
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Joined: 12 Apr 2013, 20:48

Re: Silly season 2016

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The whole Raikonnen saga is driven purely by the media, picking up on the fact that his option hasn't been activated yet, completely ignoring the most important point of all. If Ferrari take the option, they commit to another 8 figure salary for next season. I have no doubts whatsoever that Ferrari want to retain Raikonnen as Arrivabene has consistently stated. He is perfect for the role as Vettels rear gunner, and perhaps more importantly they get along well and are capable of sharing setup work. The sole issue IMO is that Ferrari intend to let the option expire, then offer Raikonnen a new deal on reduced terms.

The leak that Bottas may be of interest is IMO perfect fodder for the media, to show Raikonnen that he can be replaced, by his countryman, and cheaper should he not be willing to negotiate..

As Bottas' agent said in the week, for all the rumours, he's not had any form of discussions with Ferrari, bar the standard paddock 'what's your boys contract situation' over a cigarette, that goes in all along the grid every race weekend.

The only way anything changes at Ferrari is if Raikonnen won't accept a lower salary next season IMO.

LionKing
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Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 22:03

Re: Silly season 2016

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ringo wrote:Bottas to ferrari i think is unlikely. He hasn't shown to be better than Massa so far. If ferrari does pick him, it will be for a steady #2 for Vettel.
Hulk is the best pick or Perez. Button also is top choice for Ferrari, but i feel he may have seen enough of the sport to go outside of his comfort zone at mclaren.
Hulk yes, but Perez no. He had his chance at McLaren. And if we say that Bottas has not shown to be better than Massa we could also say that Perez has shown to be not even as good as Hulk as well and rule him out.

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Schuttelberg
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 12:02

Re: Silly season 2016

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Just in case, Bottas to Ferrari is a done deal and a seat opens up at Williams, who are the front runners for that seat?

I hear rumors about Button, Nasr and Hulkenberg. Jeez, if they opt for Nasr over Hulkenberg, I don't think I'll be able to say that F1 is about the best drivers in the best cars. It's a subject of debate anyway, but that would just take the cake with the cherry.

I really really want to see what Hulkenberg can do in a Ferrari against Vettel and I wouldn't put it past him to equal Vettel.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

f1316
78
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Silly season 2016

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LionKing wrote:
ringo wrote:Bottas to ferrari i think is unlikely. He hasn't shown to be better than Massa so far. If ferrari does pick him, it will be for a steady #2 for Vettel.
Hulk is the best pick or Perez. Button also is top choice for Ferrari, but i feel he may have seen enough of the sport to go outside of his comfort zone at mclaren.
Hulk yes, but Perez no. He had his chance at McLaren. And if we say that Bottas has not shown to be better than Massa we could also say that Perez has shown to be not even as good as Hulk as well and rule him out.
Going into the dangerous territory of degrees of team-mate comparison...

Bottas not much if any better than Massa
Massa killed by Alonso
Button looking fairly close vs. Alonso
Perez pretty equal vs. Button
Hulk has the edge of Perez

Means to me Hulk is actually pretty strong and Bottas not that great. If so, Perez sometimes beating Hulk and generally being fairly close is not so bad.

For me Hulk is the choice and Perez' problem is he's sometimes awesome - and outperforms Hulk - but not consistent enough. But also, as mentioned above, Button would actually probably be a good, consistent, #2 for Vettel who would probably challenge him in a good number of races (as he also did with Ham).

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