Silly season 2016

[Silent Storm]

Right.. You are the authority on car "bestness" is that even a word?

So Lotus was a rocket and Kimi is the slowest driver on the grid.
Btw he said the car should have won the championship that year and I agree with him on that.

[LionKing]

McLaren started the season quite in front of everyone. They qualified three quarters of a second in front on everyone else in Australia. At an indicative aero track like Barcelona, they qualified 6 tenths quicker than the second car (Maldonado in Williams)

Red Bull closed the gap in the second half. But even in that second half, McLaren got the pole in 6 of the last 10 races (RBR got 4 poles) and won 5 of them (RBR won 4, Lotus 1). McLaren would have won very likely 2 more races in Abu Dhabi and Singapore without the DNFs. Also McLaren was on average just over two tenths quicker than RedBull in quali in that season, which is significant.

Overall Mclaren and RedBull reliability were very very comparable:
Vettel retired in Valencia (Alternator) and Monza (gearbox).
Webber: USA (Alternator)

Lewis Singapore (gearbox) and Abu Dhabi (fuel pump)
Button Monza (fuel pump), Bahrain (exhaust problem with one lap to go)

But McLaren had quite a bit more other retirements which were not reliability related:
Webber: Monza (tyres finished with 2 laps to go)
Lewis collison ( Valencia, SPA, Brasil ), first lap puncture (Germany) where they retired the car when he was a lap down with 10 laps to go.
Button collison ( Korea, Monaco )

Overall in 2012 there is no doubt which was the best car.

[mertol]

Let's not rely on authorities and use logic for a difference:
1. Kimi had about the same performance as his teammate Massa for 4 seasons, suddenly in 2012 and 2013 Kimi has almost double his points.
2. Alonso beat Kimi with triple his points when they had the same cars but in 2012 and 2013, Kimi is much closer to him.
3. Kimi was also beaten by other average teammates like David Coulthard and Nick Heidfeld.

[mertol]

You know they don't give points for poles. 2012 was dominated by tires and lotus was the best with tire management.

[Phil]

My dear, what have I started....

Just to clarify; When I said 'a winning car at the time - a car that should have won that years championship', I wasn't about to argue which was the best car of that year. I was merely pointing out that Lewis could/should have won that years championship in a car that was capable of it. I didn't mean to say that it was the best car, simply that it was a winning car and despite that, he chose to move on for reasons greater than just winning.

[LionKing]

Also considering the ratio of points is not very meaningful at all. It depends on the operating point of the car on the grid, top end mid field and relative competitive picture of the grid, etc...

For instance lets say we have a driver that finishes races 2 positions in front of his teammate. If there are at the top end with 1st and 3rd, they get 25 and 15 points i.e %66 more, if they are 8th and 10th they get 4 and 1 so %300 more...

[mertol]

This is irrelevant as he had same points with Massa when they were contesting the title. Also Kimi's performance over a lot of seasons and cars is pretty constantly average. There is no reason to believe that his performance in 2012 and 2013 was special in any way.

[Silent Storm]

Well I am not arguing that Kimi is a top driver I am arguing that Mclaren was a good car capable to win the championship.
Maybe you are replying to someone else with that Kimi vs World comparison.

[mertol]

Redbull, Ferrari and Mclaren were also capable of winning the championship

I said that too. But that's not making it best car. If Alonso was in that Lotus there would be no contest for the title.

[zeph]

From Mark Hughes' twitter:

Jenson Button looking at going WRC rallying next year? #SkyF1

https://twitter.com/SportmphMark/status ... 9255345154

[PlatinumZealot]

McLaren started the season quite in front of everyone. They qualified three quarters of a second in front on everyone else in Australia. At an indicative aero track like Barcelona, they qualified 6 tenths quicker than the second car (Maldonado in Williams)

Red Bull closed the gap in the second half. But even in that second half, McLaren got the pole in 6 of the last 10 races (RBR got 4 poles) and won 5 of them (RBR won 4, Lotus 1). McLaren would have won very likely 2 more races in Abu Dhabi and Singapore without the DNFs. Also McLaren was on average just over two tenths quicker than RedBull in quali in that season, which is significant.

Overall Mclaren and RedBull reliability were very very comparable:
Vettel retired in Valencia (Alternator) and Monza (gearbox).
Webber: USA (Alternator)

Lewis Singapore (gearbox) and Abu Dhabi (fuel pump)
Button Monza (fuel pump), Bahrain (exhaust problem with one lap to go)

But McLaren had quite a bit more other retirements which were not reliability related:
Webber: Monza (tyres finished with 2 laps to go)
Lewis collison ( Valencia, SPA, Brasil ), first lap puncture (Germany) where they retired the car when he was a lap down with 10 laps to go.
Button collison ( Korea, Monaco )

Overall in 2012 there is no doubt which was the best car.

The Red Bull? Hamilton only made that 2012 Mclaren look good. Button had only one pole at Mclaren. And Button is almost the same speed as Alonso.

[Jonnycraig]

The Telegraph claim that due to Button being due a £4m payrise if kept on next season, Magnusson is likely to return.

As said a few weeks ago, Vandoorne will go to Manor.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... qus_thread

[LionKing]

The Telegraph claim that due to Button being due a £4m payrise if kept on next season, Magnusson is likely to return.

I am sure if that is the only issue, they would ask Button to reduce the salary.

[iotar__]

The Telegraph claim that due to Button being due a £4m payrise if kept on next season, Magnusson is likely to return.

I am sure if that is the only issue, they would ask Button to reduce the salary.

I thought the same. It's also about age and not getting better with age especially in combination with Alonso - two rather ancient drivers, delaying development of a younger driver (inevitable replacement), Dennis' connection with Magnussen. This kind of leak would look like his job but for the target. Is The Telegraph known for F1?

I'm not sure how they can justify taking Magnussen over Vandoorne, they were close and KM won WsR of course but now it's a bit different. If Vandooren gets Marussia seat he can't complain.

[ESPImperium]

The Button contract is dependant on where he finishes relative to Alonso at the end of the season. If he finishes ahead of Alonso his contract renewal must happen, however if its closely behind Alonso, its down to the team and if its over a certain percentage behind, it doesn't happen. If the first two scenarios happen, its up to a €4m increase in wages for 2016, as he took a pay cut from €15m to €8m for this year.

I am still of the opinion that Mclaren-Honda will have Alonso and Button next year, however Magnussen will be seated at Force India-Mercedes and Vandoorne at Manor-Honda.

Until i see the results at the end of the year, and how Manor survive to the end of the year with how early Vandoorne can tie up the GP2 title, and with 160 maximum points up for grabs, he could have it wrapped up in Russia or Bahrain 2 if he gets slower toward the business end. I think Vandoorne will be in the Manor before the end of the year, for a couple of races, maybe four tops, like Austin onwards. If not he will have some FP1 sessions at the least with them.