Best rookie of the season

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efuloni
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Joined: 13 Nov 2013, 19:07

Re: Best rookie of the season

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Andres125sx wrote:Nasr suffered 1 car failure in race in the whole season
Sainz suffered 6 car failures in race with the added bad luck he was in top ten in all those 6 races
As I said, of course Sainz had a lot of misfortune. I just think that, if you weigh his (bad) lucky + his car, you end up concluding that he still had conditions to be ahead - or at least closer - to Nasr.

Plus, Nasr had 2 car failures (GBR and JAP), not to count his break problems in a few other races.

Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Best rookie of the season

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George-Jung wrote:Has to be Verstappen.. what a drive yesterday, very mature!
Sainz 2nd for me, also a remarkable driver.. but makes a bit more mistakes.
I remember his father was called 'Jos the Boss', and i remember him well, and yes, Jos was a absolutely great F1 driver,
but Max overthrowns his father by millenia. Max the Boss, i don't know but this guy is beyond words for his age, experience and whatmore. How he's completely totaled the haters and negativity from the start of the season is completely iconical.

Max is the best rookie by miles this season, it's not even fair. He's amazing and i just can't find words to describe this talent.

That being said, Sainz has impressed me by an amazing amount aswell. Indeed the guy had a lot of bad luck - even though his teammate, too, but either way, lets not take away from Sainz effort - but this guy can race. He's topclass and his drive in the USA was absolutely phenomanal.

If there's one thing clear is that Toro Rosso definately has a driver pairing of legends this year.
2 Drivers that are going to stay in F1 for a long time thanks to their talent. I'm really glad to see real F1 drivers.

Nasr impressed me at the start of the season but imho he has been underwhelming ever after. I'd like to see him another year but i expected more from him.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
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Vasconia
6
Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: Best rookie of the season

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Manoah2u wrote:
That being said, Sainz has impressed me by an amazing amount aswell. Indeed the guy had a lot of bad luck - even though his teammate, too, but either way, lets not take away from Sainz effort - but this guy can race. He's topclass and his drive in the USA was absolutely phenomanal.

If there's one thing clear is that Toro Rosso definately has a driver pairing of legends this year.
2 Drivers that are going to stay in F1 for a long time thanks to their talent. I'm really glad to see real F1 drivers.
This. Saiz is driving perfectly well and Verstappen is showing a great talent. TR has two great drivers and I hope they will drive in RB or another top team in a near future.

notsofast
2
Joined: 10 Oct 2012, 02:56

Re: Best rookie of the season

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It's times like these when I wish F1 would ban multi-year contracts. We had a chance to see how good these two drivers are, but there's nowhere for them to go, because next year's contracts at other teams are already locked up. Wouldn't it be great to see either of them in Kimi's seat, for example. Or Rosberg's seat. Just imagine if, say, in the Champions League, the 2016 schedule were already decided by contract back in 2013 or 2014. Multi-year contracts are causing us to miss out on the best possible competition.

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knabbel
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012, 16:32

Re: Best rookie of the season

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notsofast wrote:It's times like these when I wish F1 would ban multi-year contracts. We had a chance to see how good these two drivers are, but there's nowhere for them to go, because next year's contracts at other teams are already locked up.
That wasn't a problem for Kaltenborn this year :-#

ajprice
21
Joined: 07 Feb 2011, 18:05

Re: Best rookie of the season

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Max Verstappen, all day long.

ChrisF1
7
Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 21:48

Re: Best rookie of the season

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Once again Sainz doesn't get the chance to show his talent, making Max look even more impressive.

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jericho
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Joined: 13 May 2014, 19:01

Re: Best rookie of the season

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Max did a super job this year, nobody can say he didn't. Sainz also did a good job, but Max is just on a different level.

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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Best rookie of the season

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jericho wrote:Max did a super job this year, nobody can say he didn't. Sainz also did a good job, but Max is just on a different level.
Any race where you saw that?

Because best races Max did, Carlos DNF because of a car failure. For example Max´s 4th place in Hungary, Carlos was in front of him before the team called to pits Max first and he did undercut Carlos :wtf: Later in the race Carlos car stopped, maybe that was the reason STR called Max first despite he was behind, but that barely explains any driver perfomance difference.

I´m not trying to put down Max tough, he´s doing an awesome job, only that I don´t see Carlos far from that perfomance at all.

People complain a lot about Honda lack of reliability (and perfomance but that´s a different subject), but Carlos car didn´t finish same races than Alonso´s one, and retired one more than Button :shock:

Max did not finish 5 races, but 2 of them were due to driver mistakes (Monaco and Silverstone) so he only suffered 3 mechanical failures, while Carlos DNF 7 races, all of them due to mechanical failures, more than double than his teammate (3-7).

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dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Best rookie of the season

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Max seems to crash more than Sainz, yes. I'd say they both are very good.
Honda!

ThumbsUp
16
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 10:32

Re: Best rookie of the season

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I have been collecting some data on Max and Carlos, Please feel free to add missing bits and pieces, drivers, other statistics to compare them. I don't know them all. And with some help here we can get a clearer image of the Battle of the Rookies! 8)

Max Verstappen vs. Carlos Sainz

Melbourne:
Q: 7th. Carlos, 11th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 9th Carlos, Max DNF (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: ..

Malaysia:
Q: 6th Max, 15th Carlos, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 7th Max, 8th Carlos

China:
Q: 13th Max, 14th Carlos, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 13th Carlos, Max DNF (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: ..

Bahrain:
Q: 9th Carlos, 15th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: Max (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: .. , Carlos (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: ..

Spain:
Q: 5th Carlos, 6th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 9th Carlos, 11th Max

Carlos got the softer tire for the last stint Max the hard both where on the same strategy. Favor for Carlos

Monaco:
Q: 8th Carlos, 10th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 10th Carlos, Max DNF (Crash with Romain Grosjean) from position: .. Lost points: ..

Canada:
Q: 11th Carlos, 12th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 12th Carlos, 15th Max

Austria:
Q: 7th Max, 13th Carlos, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 8th Max, Carlos DNF (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: ..

England:
Q: 8th Carlos, 13th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: Carlos DNF (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: .. , Max (Spun off track) from position: .. Lost points: ..

Hungary:
Q: 9th Max, 12th Carlos, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 4th Max, Carlos DNF (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: ..

The team called to pits Max first despite Carlos was in front of him, favouring Max and putting Carlos into traffic (behind Alonso again and also behind his team mate despite he passed him on track)

Belgium:
Q: 10th Carlos, 15th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 8th Max, Carlos DNF (Engine Failure) from position: .. Lost points: ..

Italy:
Q: 13th Carlos, Max DNQ (Penalty due to engine cover, team mistake)
R: 11th Carlos, 12th Max

Singapore:
Q: 8th Max, 14th Carlos (Crash in Q driver error)
R: 8th Max, 9th Carlos

Max had a start glitch had to unlap himself of 1,5 lap, Carlos had pitstop issues dropped back aswell.

Japan:
Q: 10th Carlos, 15th Max, Gap between drivers: ….
R: 9th Max, Carlos 10th Carlos

Russia:
Q: 9th Max, Carlos DNQ (Big crash in FP3 mechanical brake failure/driver error??)
R: 10th Max, Carlos DNF (Brake Failure) from position: .. Lost points: ..

Amerika:
Q: 10th Max, Carlos DNQ (Crash in FP3)
R: 4th Max, Carlos 7th

Mexico:
Q: 8th Max, Carlos 11th
R: 9th Max, Carlos 13th

Brazil:
Q: 10th Max, Carlos 12th
R: 9th Max (After penalty Massa), Carlos DNF (Electrical Failure in formationlap..)

Abu Dhabi:
Q:
R:



Points (up until Brasil)
Max 49
Carlos 18

Points without mechanical failures
Max ..?
Carlos ..?
Driver Errors in Q and R:
Max: 2 (R Mon, R Hun)
Carlos: 1 (Q Sin)

F1Fanatic Data (up until Brasil):
Avarage qualified position (Without penalties):
Max: 11
Carlos: 11.94

Avarage qualified position (With penalties):
Max: 11.39
Carlos: 12.5

Grid position penalties:
Max: 58
Carlos: 35

Performance comparison:
Qualified ahead: Max 7, Carlos 8
Average qualifying gap Max -0.207s faster
Finished race ahead Max 5, Carlos 4
Laps spent ahead Max 507, 324

Penalties
Driver, Penalties due to driver, Penalties due to team, No action
Max 4 5 3
Carlos 7 3 3


Edit: Added comment on Hungary
Last edited by ThumbsUp on 18 Nov 2015, 12:39, edited 2 times in total.

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Best rookie of the season

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dren wrote:Max seems to crash more than Sainz, yes. I'd say they both are very good.
having a good crash as a rookie isn't a bad thing in my opinion, it's part of testing and exploring the limits. Silly small mistakes on the other hand, are. I think Carlos needs a bit of coaching (what he will get at TR) in moments like when he his the bollard at the pit entry.

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Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Best rookie of the season

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ThumbsUp wrote: Carlos got the softer tire for the last stint Max the hard both where on the same strategy. Favor for Carlos
If you include this (wich I can´t remember and didn´t check), you should also include In Hungary the team called to pits Max first despite Carlos was in front of him, favouring Max and putting Carlos into traffic (behind Alonso again and also behind his team mate despite he passed him on track)

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bauc
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Re: Best rookie of the season

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I think both (Max & Carlos) are equally good at the moment in terms of a race craft, but I give Max a slight advantage as I think he is just a bit more aggressive and takes more chances.
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ThumbsUp
16
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 10:32

Re: Best rookie of the season

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Andres125sx wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote: Carlos got the softer tire for the last stint Max the hard both where on the same strategy. Favor for Carlos
If you include this (wich I can´t remember and didn´t check), you should also include In Hungary the team called to pits Max first despite Carlos was in front of him, favouring Max and putting Carlos into traffic (behind Alonso again and also behind his team mate despite he passed him on track)
Yup you are totally right, I just added it in the original post!