Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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hmm i tried but wasn't satisfied.
what it ended up with was rather a near carbon-copy of how visibility is with a simulator.

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i still really want that simulatorcar and make a kitcar out of it
scratch that, give me these

https://www.immersaview.com/wp-content/ ... 00x500.jpg

btw this is more or less how drivers 'see' today
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btw this is the original picture of that edited lotus halo
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view into apex

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i stand by my point i want to see something like this

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the redbull aeroscreen comes closest in it's most basic form yet, so i still vote for that one should it really have to happen.

this would be more or less the view then, kinda on par with how the helmet obstructs the vision. cameras dont give a good view of how drivers are able to look outside

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Last edited by Manoah2u on 01 Jul 2016, 21:06, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Manoah2u wrote:i'm rather sure that in the end, there will be a unanamous decision that the call for halo comes just too fast and that windtunnel effects are greater than imagined and would prove problematic for stability, disruptance of pre-calculated airflow, the mention that this device is implemented despite there having been an agreement for the 2017 design in which development progress has been made for years, but there has been no definitive decision back then regarding a halo, so it would influence the sport negatively, be a cause for fuel usage, for mirror visibility, and lastly but not least, visibility for the driver. - and to top it all off, there might be also mention regarding the device has been developed by Ferrari which had driving experience with it thus causing a potential 'advantage' over the rest of the field. not to mention there's still the danger of not being able to escape when upside down - Alonso could not have gotten out of his vehicle.

based upon all the above, i'd say that, despite the alarmbells ringing that this might really happen in 17, i still say in the end it will not happen until 2018 or 2019, when a more thoroughly researched path has been done by an independant manufacturer that is able to use a donated / loaned older-spec F1 vehicle to use data without the halo/aeroscreen and data with the halo/aeroscreen, visibility, and more thorough crash tests, where 2 options will be researched,

the halo and the aeroscreen. in the long run, the aeroscreen has the biggest benefits both safety as aesthetically.

in the end again, there is a 'current' 'agreement' regarding the halo device, but not a regulated rule. since there simply is no rule yet enforced regarding this device, there is simply no way the teams can be mandated to make use of the device, so in the end no single team will make use of it.
I really think you have no idea what limited view a f1 driver has. From behind the wheel he can't even see the Halo, how is it possible that it will obstruct his view?

Forget the Xbox game kinds of views. All they see and want to see are the apexes. Forward view is almost irrelevant. Plus, because we have two eyes, they won't even see the central pillar (you can try this yourself easily).

A windscreen on the other hand, is something extra to look through. Will be smudged, greased, be-flied, wet, etc etc

Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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perhaps you should look to the updated post. i accidentally clicked post insted of preview post......
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Rhodium
25
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 20:52

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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hey, it's a good idea for security, no ?

i hope FIA think about it....

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Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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A very nice piece about what a driver sees and what he's looking for.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/videos/7721/ ... -tracking/

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hollus
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Thank you Jolle. And that camera was still 1-2 cm above his eyes.
So from that video it appears that the central pillar (at least as narrow as the eye to eye distance) won't be a problem.
How well and how far one can see upwards remains to be clarified, I am sure Ferrari got some eye level pics from their latest test. I am wondering if rather than Eau Rouge or T1 in Austin, the largest stumbling block will be the starting and pit lane lights? Someone in the starting grid is bound to be at that magic angle where the halo blocks sight, not a problem that is too tricky to solve.
On a slightly different take, Diario As published yesterday that Ferrari did a driver extraction test with Halo2, and what used to take 5 minutes ended up taking 12 minutes. There is a real problem that needs to be designed out.
P.S. While I welcome this on safety grounds and admire its simplicity, the thing is butt ugly, no doubt!
Rivals, not enemies.

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hollus
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Isn´t this picture taken from an angle similar to what would be needed for Eau Rouge? I think upwards visibility will be fine, at least a bit to the side.
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And also this. Hard to imagine that angle not being enough.
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Last edited by hollus on 08 Jul 2016, 19:03, edited 1 time in total.
Rivals, not enemies.

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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hollus wrote: the largest stumbling block will be the starting and pit lane lights? Someone in the starting grid is bound to be at that magic angle where the halo blocks sight, not a problem that is too tricky to solve.
The intelligent solution would be to put an OLED screen which shows starting lights at the start of the race, pit lights during the pit stops and all other times functions as a 180deg rear view mirror.

"I didn't see him" would cease to be a valid excuse overnight.
Not the engineer at Force India

BanMeToo
6
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 16:26
Location: USA

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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This is how prototype drivers race. The halo is not a visibility problem. Kimi and Vettel would have long complained if they could not see what they need to see.


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turbof1
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Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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I have to say the new halo looks a bit more elegant compared to the previous incarnation. It blends more in with the natural lines of the car. I think I could get used to this.
#AeroFrodo

BanMeToo
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Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 16:26
Location: USA

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Same. It could be worse. Head safety is important.


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F1NAC
163
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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hollus wrote:Thank you Jolle. And that camera was still 1-2 cm above his eyes.
So from that video it appears that the central pillar (at least as narrow as the eye to eye distance) won't be a problem.
How well and how far one can see upwards remains to be clarified, I am sure Ferrari got some eye level pics from their latest test. I am wondering if rather than Eau Rouge or T1 in Austin, the largest stumbling block will be the starting and pit lane lights? Someone in the starting grid is bound to be at that magic angle where the halo blocks sight, not a problem that is too tricky to solve.
On a slightly different take, Diario As published yesterday that Ferrari did a driver extraction test with Halo2, and what used to take 5 minutes ended up taking 12 minutes. There is a real problem that needs to be designed out.
P.S. While I welcome this on safety grounds and admire its simplicity, the thing is butt ugly, no doubt!
Here is actually a rough picture how it could look like. Photo taken by Scarbs at FOS.

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gandharva
252
Joined: 06 Feb 2012, 15:19
Location: Munich

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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This thing is ugly as ---!

Xwang
29
Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Why not to use two lateral pylon as the reb bull aligned with the mirrors supports, instead of the central one, keeping the upper bar?

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