When will ALO leave McLaren?

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When will ALO leave McLaren?

Poll ended at 17 Mar 2016, 23:07

Right after GP of Australia
2
2%
after GP of Spain
0
No votes
after the GP of Canada
2
2%
after the GP of Hungary/Germany/Spa when "rogue" PU iteration didn't work out well
4
3%
after the 2016 F1 season
41
33%
after 2017 testing
5
4%
after 2017 GP of Australia
1
1%
ALO will fullfil his contract till the end of 2017 at McLaren
69
56%
 
Total votes: 124

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FrukostScones
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Gaz. wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:
Fulcrum wrote:Unfortunately Alonso has a habit of going to what WAS the best car; the McLaren stint after Renault being the exception. Took a 'gap year' out of desperation back at Renault, only to move to Ferrari who were in decline. Then a switch to McLaren, also in decline, but sold on the promise of revolution and having burned his bridges at Ferrari.

True to form, he'll switch to Mercedes just as their competitive advantage evaporates.
But no-one wants or needs him at Mercedes nor their advantage wil evaporate much (also in 2017 strong me thinks).
If HAM and ROS were too hard too mange for them (childsplay imo) than how would ALO-ROS or ALO-HAM would be managable?
... maybe ALO-Wehrlein would work but...
also ALO can definitly move to Renault in 2017 or 2018 (Ghosn wants him). If he can acceopt a lower pay of course.
If I was him, I would buy myself into a FINDIA (Force Asturias) or Williams. Would be so much more fun. for him and the fans.
But that will never happen as this humble pie is too big to swalla for him.

Also Red Bull always declined his advances... so the last Top Team he will drive for is eithe McLaren (if they can make it to the top again) or Renault.
It was well documented that RBR wanted to sign Alonso in November 2007:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/n ... orts.sport

The above story was confirmed by both Alonso's manager and Deitrich in 2013 at the Hungarian GP.
and after 2007 I guess they never wanted to think about that again...

I should have specified that I meant his advances at the time when he was at Ferrari.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

Gaz.
Gaz.
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Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 09:53

Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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FrukostScones wrote:
Gaz. wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:

and after 2007 I guess they never wanted to think about that again...

I should have specified that I meant his advances at the time when he was at Ferrari.
Oh yes absolutely- 2009-2013 as long as RBR had two drivers bringing in more than 33 points per race (the max 2nd and 3rd could attain) at every race there was no reason to upset the apple cart. With Seb bagging 25 points more often than not RBR could afford to have Mark coming home 4th, 5th or even 6th and still score enough points between them to win the WCC. As Mercedes are finding out with their drivers scoring 43 points almost every weekend, they are getting all the aggro from the drivers but no extra return in the championship other than wrapping it up sooner. :)
Forza Jules

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FrukostScones
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123248

for me this reads like McLaren expects to be humilated again.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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Vasconia
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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marvin78 wrote: One example: Alonso wins, it's him, Alonso looses, it was the car (according to ALO). Maybe that is not always completly wrong but you do not motivate your team with this. So he is the one who wastes is talent.
This has been one of the biggest mistakes of Alonso. But the he is not the only one, I could count Hamilton as well.

Jolle
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Vasconia wrote:
marvin78 wrote: One example: Alonso wins, it's him, Alonso looses, it was the car (according to ALO). Maybe that is not always completly wrong but you do not motivate your team with this. So he is the one who wastes is talent.
This has been one of the biggest mistakes of Alonso. But the he is not the only one, I could count Hamilton as well.
It (Alonso winning) being almost three years ago, it's quite hard to remember.... With Hamilton I don't totally agree, he has (some) odd personality trades (as do most winning athletes) but he's very much into the whole team thing with his winning streak the last couple of years. He and the team have been almost pleasant transparent in the media when it didn't go to plan or if they made a mistake, and took it on the chin if necessary.

What ALO did last season, with constantly on the radio openly criticizing the car and the engine, to me, was trying to get fired or whatever. He's paid 40m a year, hasn't won a GP in years, his name wasn't good enough anymore to bring in some big sponsor deals. McLaren would have been in the same position if they let MAG drive the whole season, just 39,5m less poor.

There is, at the moment, no team that wants to pay that amount of money for him and no possible race winning seat available.

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Vasconia
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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I agree with you about Alonso´s attitude sometimes but you cant blame him for the "lack of difference between driving Alonso or Magnussen 2015s car".

With Hamilton everything is great until something doesn't work. Then we can see him with a completely different face and with a not so good attitude, putting some negative pressure on the team or disobeying some radio orders.

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Vasconia wrote:
marvin78 wrote: One example: Alonso wins, it's him, Alonso looses, it was the car (according to ALO). Maybe that is not always completly wrong but you do not motivate your team with this. So he is the one who wastes is talent.
This has been one of the biggest mistakes of Alonso. But the he is not the only one, I could count Hamilton as well.
No, this has been one of the biggest lies in F1.

If you can´t remember Alonso praising his team after a victory, or mentioning people from his team who deserve some recognition, then you have some serious memory problems, or you simply wear some rose tinted glasses

I agree when he fails (wich do not happen frequently) he has problems to admit it, that´s true, but when he win with a great car, he always thanks the team for that car

A spanish driver won in Germany driving an italian car designed by a greek. But no, that never happened, I dreamt it, he only mentioned himself....

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Vasconia
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Alonso has some serious problems to admit when he makes a mistake(he doesnt make a lot, but it happens). But I have NOT said that the doesnt praise his team when things go OK. But, he hasnt been the most constructive person when things go wrong, NOT ALWAYS, but yes sometimes.

And this is the reason why I compare him with Lewis, because sometimes(I have said sometimes, right?) they dont make the most constructive comments when things dont go right.

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FrukostScones
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Q: What are your early thoughts with regard to your driver line-up for 2017?

RD: Obviously I am not going to answer that. What I will say is that Fernando has repeatedly confirmed, including when interviewed during the first Barcelona test only a couple of weeks ago, that he intends to complete the three years of his current contract. And that contract contains no options or performance clauses by the way: it is three years straight. As for Jenson, he and I will speak during the course of the year. But he is a world champion, and one of the very best drivers we have ever had. Any team would be delighted to have him on their driving strength. We most definitely are.
https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... ennis.html

ALO is trapped .... :lol:
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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FrukostScones
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

namao
namao
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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ALO left Ferrari to go to a project called "ALL or NOTHING" aka McLaren Honda. Ferrari will be 2nd again so... No regrets. :roll:

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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namao wrote:Alonso is one of the best drivers of F1's history, at the top 5, in my opinion. But, he is the worst driver at switching teams.
IMO that one is hard to argue. Alonso has driven for two of the most prestigious teams during seasons where he actually had a multiple GP winning car and by that definition also the ability to win a WDC. It was also within his decision to change teams when he did.

In 2005-2006, he was at Renault where he achieved his two WDC titles to date.

In 2007, he was at McLaren who should have won that years championship. It's hard to argue he deserved that years championship no matter how good of a driver he is; He trailed Lewis, his team-mate, by quite a considerable margin towards the end.

During 2007 and for 2008, he decided to move away from the team that had 'the' winning car, the best prospect of winning any title, he also participated in the ongoing politics that led to McLarens fine and exclusion of the WCC title and ultimately also to an unworkable driver-team relationship that forced him to the only other team that would take him at the time with no winning prospect: Renault. 2008, Lewis won that years championship with a car that Alonso could have used to contest that years WDC title.

2010 he got signed at Ferrari, arguably the most successful and most prestigious F1 team in history. He also had a multiple race winning car that year and in all his 5 years at Ferrari - also under very good circumstances where he faced no real competition from his team-mate and clearly was always the loved and supported driver of that team.

Looking back at that history, I can't help but think that Alonso - as great as a driver he may be - was also the limiting factor at times that limited him in winning further WDCs or put him in situations where he was not signed by teams that had a WDC capable winning car. He didn't fare well in teams that promoted equality among both its drivers when both were competitive (2007) and in all other years, he was always the defacto favored driver of the team. Perhaps this attributed to an image that made him less desirable to certain teams like RedBull, i.e. in the years after 2010 when they had a winning driver in Vettel and Webber on a year-by-year contract. His history with Lewis in 2007 perhaps also makes him less desirable to sign as a driver at Mercedes given they too have a winning team - hence why Alonso after his fallout at Ferrari left him no other choice but to end up at McLaren - a team that has been arguably in free fall since their heights in 2012. And for him to be taken back there is quite a miracle given the fallout he had and created back in 2007 with the whole spygate and saga.

I'm not disputing at all that a driver of Alonso's caliber deserves more WDCs than he has. Arguably, I rate him higher than Vettel, but where I can not fault Vettel and can only marvel at him is in his work ethos. The young German, like Schumacher, always striked me as a very methodically focused driver that can mold a team around his benefit. He did this successfully at RedBull and he is repeating that feat at Ferrari too. Is it coincidence that Ferrari now is performing better? Surely Vettel is not the only contributor to that - wide ranging staff changes have also contributed, but I do think Vettel is a not to be underestimated part of that puzzle. And I have my doubts if Alonso is the type of driver that has an actual and crucial positive effect on the team and the people around him.

Times when he does not win has demonstrated this. And his upsetting, critical and very public remarks, like i.e. at the 2015Japanese grand prix where he shamed his own team on public radio IMO does not show the persona of a brilliant genius, but the persona of a very frustrated 'i deserve better' type of diva. I can't blame him and I'm not trying to be overly critical of him, but IMO - the ethos of a methodically focused driver has a much more positive effect on the people around him that would lead to better results, better performance than what his remarks and general attitude provoke - namely further friction between team (McLaren) and engine supplier (Honda) that absolutely require a harmonic partnership to succeed. Those remarks came, admittedly towards the end of a very embarrassing season, but also the first season of a contract consisting of 3 seasons and what was always clearly to be a 'long term project'.

When I look at Alonso at any team that isn't performing - I don't want to see threats of leaving (even if such threats never came directly from him, his attitude support them), critic or attitude of him being the best and deserving more - I want to see the opposite: devotion, motivation, focus. And these are qualities I sadly don't see enough but see in drivers like Vettel, even Button - drivers who are very liked around the paddock and drivers who arguably have a more positive effect on their team. And in a team where the "team" element is more important than what the driver himself brings in form of performance, these qualities are everything. Being the most gifted driver is simply not enough. And it is also the reason why IMO Alonso will never succeed on the two titles he has, unless he strikes gold with McLaren-Honda (which I doubt).

My 2 cents.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Andres125sx
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Alonso supported Ferrari 4 of 5 seasons, despite Ferrari never provided the car they promised last season (again and again), he always kept focused... until his 5th season in red when they only managed to be 4th in the WCC, wich by any standard is a disaster for Ferrari.

So after 4 seasons supporting the team and the team underperforming again and again, he got tired and moved out. But the problem was Alonso who got tired in his fifth season?


Sorry but I see it very differently. It was Ferrari the weak part of that relationship, not Alonso. They constantly did promise cars to compete for the title, and always failed to fullfil. Until the end of 2014 when they had to recognize in 2015 they were not going to be title contenders (again). Alonso then moved out, as he was tired of the conservative strategy of the red team. He asked for more innovation and risk repeatedly, but the italian team was more confortable on a conservative strategy, despite this will always put them in second place

I don´t see any lack of focus, he did all he could for 4 seasons. I always read comparisons with Vettel and how good he is for his teams..... Let´s see when he´s four consecutive seasons without the best car or a car close to the best. When you win or you start a new project, it´s easy to keep focused. Problems start when you don´t win or the project prove to be wrong.

I wouldn´t bet Vettel will be more patient than Alonso. We´ve not seen his dark side yet, his F1 career has been too confortable to compare with Alonso´s career, his only difficult season was 2014 when Ricciardo beat him, and he instantly moved out RBR, the team wich made posible his four titles. I wouldn´t call that a perfect driver for teams

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Phil
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I see it very differently. It was Ferrari the weak part of that relationship, not Alonso.
That's exactly the point. In a team-sport, the team as a whole needs to extract its full potential. It's not enough to be the 'best driver' if the team isn't and vice-versa. The point I'm making is that Alonso is undisputed a brilliant driver, but IMO he lacks that element where he is able to push his team forward outside of racing.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23495111.app
A Ferrari statement said Alonso was reminded by Di Montezemolo that "all the great champions who have driven for Ferrari have always been asked to put the interests of the team above their own".

According to the statement, Di Montezemolo also insisted that "this is the moment to stay calm, avoid polemics and show humility and determination in making one's own contribution, standing alongside the team and its people both at the track and outside it".
These comments were made in mid 2013. Montezemolo, after exit with Alonso, also confirmed that he felt that Alonso was becoming demotivating for the team. If I compare that statement with his outburst last year, his first season back at McLaren at the Japanese GP, I see many similarities. This attitude will not bring his team and his ambitions further.

I think if Alonso had been a better 'team-player', perhaps a more 'humble' one, also more methodical, he might have enjoyed more success than just the two titles to his name. It would have meant he would have dealt better with the situation in 2007 and perhaps beaten Lewis, stayed on and clinched another title with that 2008 McLaren and as a result, might have moved over to replace Webber at RedBull a lot sooner, or even been more interesting to Mercedes in their current situation.

The reality is; In a time when Alonso wanted to (had to) leave Ferrari, RedBull didn't want him, neither did Mercedes nor Williams, leaving him no other place to go than to McLaren (who with the best Mercedes engine ended 5th in the WCC) . And that is Alonso we're speaking about - even among most team principals still regarded as perhaps the best driver on the grid. Why wouldn't they be fighting for him if not for his troubled history with teams and team-mates and perhaps his attitude? It's a factor not to be underestimated IMO.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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FrukostScones
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Re: When will ALO leave McLaren?

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Ted Kravitz predicts Manor faster than McLaren...haha
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... ason-ahead
3:47
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.