Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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SR71
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 21:23

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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jato wrote:
SR71 wrote:Kvyat beat DR fair and square.
If that was the case you know the media, fans and team principals would all be talking about Kvyat being wanted by Merc and Ferrari yet the only thing rumoured about Kvyat is him losing his seat to Verstappen. Pretty much tells you the consensus.

Not to mention that despite 'Kvyat beating DR fair and square', all the major F1 publications still had Ricciardo in the top 5 drivers for the year. There is a lot more than just looking at the WDC standings.
I completely agree. Let's apply this type of rational thinking towards 2014 and the previous 5 year for Seb. 1 second place and 4 WDC are not undone by one shiny but average year from DR. Seb answered 2014 with the best driver of 2015 yet somehow insecure Seb haters need to keep talking about 2014 as if it's still relevant.

Senna77
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Joined: 05 Apr 2016, 08:05

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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SR71 wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:Great reply Phil, I couldn´t explain it better, upvoted.

That is a very convenient excuse for Vettel fans, but anyone who watched that season knows Vettel simply didn´t adapt to new PUs and cars. Also, as you explained, the contract clause may have an influence in last races of the season when there was a free seat in Ferrari, but not sooner, and Vettel performed better in last part of the season so that theory of Vettel sandbagging in 2014, IMO is complete BS from Vettel fans who can´t accept Ricciardo beat him fair and square
Kvyat beat DR fair and square.
There were only 13 races were both cars finished without mechanical issues. Out of these 13 races it was 7 Ricciardo 6 Kyvatt.
Ricciardo scored 81 points and Kyvatt 62 points in these races.

If your definition of fair and square is not watch any races or count retirements but only look at the final end of year points score then yes Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and sqaure.

If you do not count the fact Ricciardo had way more mechanical retirements which were not his fault in 2015 then yes Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and square.

If you do not count the fact Ricciardo also had way more grid penalties compromising races for engine changes in 2015, then yes Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and sqaure.

If you do not consider the fact the final 2 races Ricciardo was given an upgraded turbo that did not work properly without the rest of the changes and actually gave him less power and was a step back in power than Kyvatt's engine in the final 2 races which was confirmed by Horner, then yes Kyvatt again beat Ricciardo fair and sqaure.

If you do not also consider the fact Ricciardo pitted and was behind Kyvatt in Monaco and would have easily passed him with tyres 3 seconds a lap quicker. But instead the team made Kyvatt move over and not race at all and then asked Ricciardo to give the spot back later on. Instead of acting like Verstappen Ricciardo instantly complied which was very unfair in hindsight but he is a team player. The team did not want to risk Kyvatt racing or overdefending and causing an accident which in effect cost Ricciardo 4 points to Kyvatt in this race alone.

Also consider Hamilton smashed Ricciardo in Hungary and got a penalty which in turn caused major aero damage to his car in Hungary costing him the win. Then Rosberg smashed Ricciardo and both brundle on sky f1 and Coultard on BBC clearly blamed Rosberg who mysteriously never got a penalty for this. Costing Ricciardo a win as he was on much fresher tyres and lapping seconds quicker than any1 out there.

Also in Japan Massa on the start got a terrible start and instead of staying to the left swerves to the middle Grosjean style puncturing Ricciardos tyre which by the time he made it to the pitts was almost an entire lap down. 100% Massa's fault causing a grosjean type move yet no penalty. Very black and white mistake which meant no points possible for Ricciardo in Japan.

So yes if you do not actually watch any of the races all year and just check the end of year 2015 F1 scoreboard and noticed Kyvatt was 3 points ahead of Ricciardo then you are 100% correct. Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and square.

But if you consider the fact Ricciardo had
1. An inferior engine to Kyvatt for the 2 final races
2. Was told to move over for Kyvatt with no chance to race him in Monaco robbing him of points
3. More mechanical failures
4. More grid spot starting penalties
5. Smashed by other drivers not his fault and had 2 races ruined losing points.
6. Had no major accidents on track in clear air damaging the car where Kyvatt had 2 accidents in clear air. 1 massive 1 in japan and 1 huge hit of the wall in USA.
7. Ricciardo overall won the qualifying battle of 2015

And count out the 13 races both cars finished it was 7 Ricciardo 6 Kyvatt.
Ricciardo scored 81 points and Kyvatt 62 points in these races both cars finished.

You will realise clear as day Ricciardo had a much stronger year than Kyvatt overall in 2015

Kyvatt is still young so let's see what he can do in 2016.
Last edited by Senna77 on 05 Apr 2016, 11:45, edited 1 time in total.

jato
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Joined: 02 Oct 2014, 03:51

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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SR71 wrote:
jato wrote:
SR71 wrote:Kvyat beat DR fair and square.
If that was the case you know the media, fans and team principals would all be talking about Kvyat being wanted by Merc and Ferrari yet the only thing rumoured about Kvyat is him losing his seat to Verstappen. Pretty much tells you the consensus.

Not to mention that despite 'Kvyat beating DR fair and square', all the major F1 publications still had Ricciardo in the top 5 drivers for the year. There is a lot more than just looking at the WDC standings.
I completely agree. Let's apply this type of rational thinking towards 2014 and the previous 5 year for Seb. 1 second place and 4 WDC are not undone by one shiny but average year from DR. Seb answered 2014 with the best driver of 2015 yet somehow insecure Seb haters need to keep talking about 2014 as if it's still relevant.
How on earth did you think I come off as an insecure Seb hater? I think Seb's a bloody brilliant driver, just because I see DR being as good as a driver as Seb or better doesn't diminish my opinion of Seb whatsoever because of one season. Talk about generalizations...

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SR71
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 21:23

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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Senna77 wrote:
SR71 wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:Great reply Phil, I couldn´t explain it better, upvoted.

That is a very convenient excuse for Vettel fans, but anyone who watched that season knows Vettel simply didn´t adapt to new PUs and cars. Also, as you explained, the contract clause may have an influence in last races of the season when there was a free seat in Ferrari, but not sooner, and Vettel performed better in last part of the season so that theory of Vettel sandbagging in 2014, IMO is complete BS from Vettel fans who can´t accept Ricciardo beat him fair and square
Kvyat beat DR fair and square.
There were only 13 races were both cars finished without mechanical issues. Out of these 13 races it was 7 Ricciardo 6 Kyvatt.
Ricciardo scored 81 points and Kyvatt 62 points in these races.

If your definition of fair and square is not watch any races or count retirements but only look at the final end of year points score then yes Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and sqaure.

If you do not count the fact Ricciardo had way more mechanical retirements which were not his fault in 2015 then yes Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and square.

If you do not count the fact Ricciardo also had way more grid penalties compromising races for engine changes in 2015, then yes Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and sqaure.

If you do not consider the fact the final 2 races Ricciardo was given an upgraded turbo that did not work properly without the rest of the changes and actually gave him less power and was a step back in power than Kyvatt's engine in the final 2 races which was confirmed by Horner, then yes Kyvatt again beat Ricciardo fair and sqaure.

If you do not also consider the fact Ricciardo pitted and was behind Kyvatt in Monaco and would have easily passed him with tyres 3 seconds a lap quicker. But instead the team made Kyvatt move over and not race at all and then asked Ricciardo to give the spot back later on. Instead of acting like Verstappen Ricciardo instantly complied which was very unfair in hindsight but he is a team player. The team did not want to risk Kyvatt racing or overdefending and causing an accident which in effect cost Ricciardo 4 points to Kyvatt in this race alone.

Also consider Hamilton smashed Ricciardo in Hungary and got a penalty which in turn caused major aero damage to his car in Hungary costing him the win. Then Rosberg smashed Ricciardo and both brundle on sky f1 and Coultard on BBC clearly blamed Rosberg who mysteriously never got a penalty for this. Costing Ricciardo a win as he was on much fresher tyres and lapping seconds quicker than any1 out there.

Also in Japan Massa on the start got a terrible start and instead of staying to the left swerves to the middle Grosjean style puncturing Ricciardos tyre which by the time he made it to the pitts was almost an entire lap down. 100% Massa's fault causing a grosjean type move yet no penalty. Very black and white mistake which meant no points possible for Ricciardo in Japan.

So yes if you do not actually watch any of the races all year and just check the end of year 2015 F1 scoreboard and noticed Kyvatt was 3 points ahead of Ricciardo then you are 100% correct. Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and square.

But if you consider the fact Ricciardo had
1. An inferior engine to Kyvatt for the 2 final races
2. Was told to move over for Kyvatt with no chance to race him in Monaco robbing him of points
3. More mechanical failures
4. More grid spot starting penalties
5. Smashed by other drivers not his fault and had 2 races ruined losing points.
6. Had no major accidents on track in clear air damaging the car where Kyvatt had 2 accidents in clear air. 1 massive 1 in japan and 1 huge hit of the wall in USA.
7. Ricciardo overall won the qualifying battle of 2015

And count out the 13 races both cars finished it was 7 Ricciardo 6 Kyvatt.
Ricciardo scored 81 points and Kyvatt 62 points in these races both cars finished.

You will realise clear as day Ricciardo had a much stronger year than Kyvatt overall in 2015

Kyvatt is still young so let's see what he can do in 2016.
I love how all of the above counts in DR vs DK, but none of the above similarities count when its DR vs SV.

Classic bias.

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SR71
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Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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jato wrote:
SR71 wrote:
jato wrote:
If that was the case you know the media, fans and team principals would all be talking about Kvyat being wanted by Merc and Ferrari yet the only thing rumoured about Kvyat is him losing his seat to Verstappen. Pretty much tells you the consensus.

Not to mention that despite 'Kvyat beating DR fair and square', all the major F1 publications still had Ricciardo in the top 5 drivers for the year. There is a lot more than just looking at the WDC standings.
I completely agree. Let's apply this type of rational thinking towards 2014 and the previous 5 year for Seb. 1 second place and 4 WDC are not undone by one shiny but average year from DR. Seb answered 2014 with the best driver of 2015 yet somehow insecure Seb haters need to keep talking about 2014 as if it's still relevant.
How on earth did you think I come off as an insecure Seb hater? I think Seb's a bloody brilliant driver, just because I see DR being as good as a driver as Seb or better doesn't diminish my opinion of Seb whatsoever because of one season. Talk about generalizations...
I never said your name, calm down.

Senna77
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Joined: 05 Apr 2016, 08:05

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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SR71 wrote:
Senna77 wrote:
SR71 wrote:
Kyvatt is still young so let's see what he can do in 2016.
I love how all of the above counts in DR vs DK, but none of the above similarities count when its DR vs SV.

Classic bias.
You claimed Kyvatt beat Ricciardo fair and square. I pointed out how extremely biased you were step by step in detail .
Did you aknowledge any of the facts or details ?
No
Your reply?
Call me biased and change topic now praising Vettel saying he is better than Ricciardo because same facts applied.
Kyvatt beat Ricciardo by 3 points and i explained in detail that the points did not tell the entire story.

Yet Ricciardo did not beat Vettel by 3 points but a WOPPING 71 points. a Deficit 2000% greater so why are you comparing a 3 point gap to 71 point gap with no facts?

You insinuated in earlier replies Vettel left due to an exit clause. No facts or evidence not once supported this.

Alonso was under contract for 2015. The only way Vettel was going to Ferrari was if Alonso decided to leave. This decision was not made till at least mid year.
More importantly in Japan Christian Horner confirmed Vettel is going to Ferrari. Did Vettel in the final races start beating Ricciardo? No he got thrashed as always.

Most experts agree Hamilton is 1 step above Rosberg because when both put the hammer and both push to the limit in clear air Hamilton is on average .1 second faster than Rosberg in races. So hamilton is lets say 1 level above Rosberg. tiny gap

Ricciardo proved he is at least 5 to 10 levels above Vettel all year long. Absolutely no comparison. I will explain below

Webber was by far the worst starter in F1 in that redbull. Then when Ricciardo joined he went from a decent starter to the worst on the grid in 2014. That is what makes him a 10 times better racer than Vettel that he fell to the back or midfield almost every race then fought his way back overtaking Vettel almost every single time from the back. Ricciardo kept claiming the clutch was to blame. And when they changed it in spa 2015 you see his starts all of a sudden were very good. So clearly that problem was car related and fixed now. But lets say Vettel is better off the start which he clearly overall was. That's the only area he was quicker than Ricciardo.

In race pace, lap times, consistancy, overtaking, defending, no mistakes, qualifying, etc etc Ricciardo is hands down better

Bahrain another problem start from Ricciardo caused him to fall back stuck behind cars entire race. He was stuck behind Vettel being massively held up. How do we know? Once he passed Vettel with 5 laps to go he put the hammer down. And Vettel could not keep up. Ricciardo averaged 1 second a lap quicker and was the only time this race we actually saw these guys head to head in clear air. 1 second is something not even schumacher could manage over Barrichelo. Hamilton not once managed this gap ever when hammer was down with both cars on same tyre strategy. First clear indicator Ricciardo was 10 levels above Vettel.

China again Ricciardo was behind Vettel lapping a good half a second faster. 5 levels above him. He was told to move over. Vettel said tough luck and fought to the death to keep ricciardo behind and failed. Another clear indication Vettel was highly motivated. But once through Ricciardo opened another huge gap and Vettel couldn't keep up

Canada. Ricciardo again was stuck behind Vettel being massively held up. When Vettel pitted as he was in front and has race preference to pitt first, and get undercut as he is leading car what did Ricciardo do? Ricciardo was so much quicker he put hammer down and actually got the overcut on old tyres by pitting second. Only possible by team mates when you are at least 10 levels above them and being massively held up. He then overtook Rosberg who had a brocken ERS for the win. Vettel pushed but could not even pass a damaged rosberg. He fought hard but nowhere near as good as Ricciardo in overtaking and settled for 3rd. he tried was highly motivated but clearly 10 steps below in talent.

Hungary Vettel again pushed like he never has before. He was abusing the track limits and astroturf so hard Brundle even commented he playing with fire. Why did Vettel push so hard if he trying to break contract? Vettel pushed harder in this race then he ever pushed the past 5 years as back then he never needed to push the car was so quick, he could manage the pace from front. This was 1 of the first races in 5 years Vettel pushed so hard and got so ragged it was clear as day watching him. and what happened? Vettel pushed so hard he spun around and hit the wall. Ricciardo was lapping much much faster all race and won the race while Vettel was again down in 6th. Nowhere to be seen and struggling to overtake much slower cars. Again Ricciardo 10 levels above here to claim the win.

Spa Vettel was ahead of Ricciardo right at the beginning. So tyres were fresh. When Ricciardo was behind Vettel pushed so hard he went off the track losing control nearly killing himself possibly. Something we never saw from Vettel as he never needed to push to the limits like this in the previous 5 years. Proving he drove his heart out even losing control trying to keep Ricciardo behind but again failed. Ricciardo then from lap 1 to lap 44 was averaging 1-2 seconds a lap quicker to win the race while Vettel was down in 6th. It was not 1 lucky lap but every single lap. Fresh tyres or old tyres no matter what he was quicker. 10 levels above. Gaps not even Schumacher managed over Barrichelo

Monza: Ricciardo another clutch problem he claims that dropped him back to 12th while Vettel was in 4th.
He drove the entire race lapping up to 1-2 seconds quicker than his team mate and caught him. Now when he overtook Kimi, Button and 5 other cars all at the end of the straight all did not block the inside line as no point.
Vettel here proved he was the hungriest and most motivated on track as he locked up holding inside line nearly crashing Ricciardo not to let him through. Something no driver would do trying to break a contract. Then Ricciardo passed him like he was standing still. Again in this race Hamilton was .1 seconds quicker than Rosberg when hammer was down. Ricciardo was a HUGE 1-2 seconds entire race. 10 levels above. There is just no comparison with these drivers.

By Japan Horner on TV live confirmed Vettel is going to Ferrari so if you believe Vettel was driving slow to break contract which is fairytales when you watch the races. Then now Vettel is free to race Ricciardo according to his fairytale.

Austin it "seems" Vettel had a good race as gained so many places. But watch the lap chart again. From the 1st lap to the final lap Vettel was a wopping 1-2 seconds a lap slower than Ricciardo. Another huge gap not 1 driver in 2014 had to their team mate. Not even Schumacher in his prime enjoyed such a massive gap over Barrichelo. 10 levels above again this race.

Abhu Dhabi both cars started from the pitt lane. Ricciardo again was lapping much quicker and made it to 4th just shy of podium. Vettel was only 8th and could not even get past a much slower (over 1 second) Button which Ricciardo made easy work of. Proving once again Ricciardo is 10 levels above in race pace and overtaking ability this race.

Also Vettel demanded and got 4 new chassis. When Webber struggled he was not given any. Not 1 driver in the history of F1 i can ever recall ever being beaten by a team mate demanded 4 new chassis. Even after he kept getting thrashed Vettel demanded another chassis with new updates. If Vettel wanted to go Ferrari he would not be demanding new chassis to beat Ricciardo. Wouldn't he be doing everything he can to lose? Yet the team did everything they could to allow him to beat Ricciardo. But no matter what he never beat him on track fair and square as he is just not as fast.
Vettel was by far the most motivated driver in 2014 to beat his teammate. But even as highly motivated as Vettel was by demanding and getting 4 new chassis he was still nowhere near Ricciardo in pace or talent.

The only issue Ricciardo had was the clutch and starts in 2014. But in spa 2015 this was fixed so this weakness of Ricciardo's has dissapeared now. Otherwise in 2014 Ricciardo would have thrashed Vettel by an even bigger margin and not just 71 points.

There were 15 races were both cars finished. It was 12/3 Ricciardo. Total thrashing and similar to schumacher over Barrichelo stats on paper. But in races the gap was far far greater.

In Qualifying it was 10 Ricciardo 9 Vettel
Ricciardo 8 podiums Vettel 4 podiums
Ricciardo 3 wins Vettel 0 wins


On race day the gap was 1 of the greatest i have ever seen between 2 team mates. Ricciardo won 3 races where Vettel was down in 3rd 5th and 6th not even close. And this didnt happen 1 time. But over 19 races. From race 1 to the final race. No Matter what the gap was the same and consistent and usually between half a second to usually 1-2 seconds when both were in clear air and had the hammer down.

Not 1 level gap between Hamilton and Rosberg. Not 5 level gap betwen Schumacher and Barrichelo. But 10 level gap.

In "EQUAL MACHINARY" Vettel is no match for Ricciardo and never will be.

jato
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Joined: 02 Oct 2014, 03:51

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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SR71 wrote:
jato wrote:
SR71 wrote:
I completely agree. Let's apply this type of rational thinking towards 2014 and the previous 5 year for Seb. 1 second place and 4 WDC are not undone by one shiny but average year from DR. Seb answered 2014 with the best driver of 2015 yet somehow insecure Seb haters need to keep talking about 2014 as if it's still relevant.
How on earth did you think I come off as an insecure Seb hater? I think Seb's a bloody brilliant driver, just because I see DR being as good as a driver as Seb or better doesn't diminish my opinion of Seb whatsoever because of one season. Talk about generalizations...
I never said your name, calm down.
Just by inferring 'insecure Seb haters' is enough to see your bias at that time in the post, directed at me or not. And yes 2014 is still completely relevant.

bill shoe
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Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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My take on Seb is that he was an extremely precise driver who could consistently place his car within 1 or 2 cm on the track. He was consistently the best at using all the track and then some right up to the limit of getting a penalty, but to his credit he was very good at it and cm-perfect. This gave him his speed. However, for a top-level F1 driver (important level of comparison to keep in mind) he did not really have top-shelf car control skills. If his car was extremely well balanced and nailed to the track then he could get the most of it (thanks Mr. Newey!) but if the handling was a bit vauge he lost his cm-confidence and couldn't master the car. Even Mark Webber was consistently faster than Seb for a while in one of their later seasons together when the tire spec and the aero were not working correctly to nail the car to the road...

Now Mr. Seb is at Ferrari and has been crucifying Raikkonen with raw pace. But if you remember two or three years ago Alonso was successfully driving around some Ferrari handling issues, while in contrast Raikkonen identified the symptoms and made James Allison fix the problem. Thanks to Raikkonen the current Ferrari is pretty well balanced and nailed to the track... But Seb gets all the credit.

I think Ricciardo has more underlying car control than Seb and was therefore able to consistently drive past Seb during '14 when the car never had the usual Newey perfection.

That's what I have to say about that.

Senna77
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Joined: 05 Apr 2016, 08:05

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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bill shoe wrote:My take on Seb is that he was an extremely precise driver who could consistently place his car within 1 or 2 cm on the track. He was consistently the best at using all the track and then some right up to the limit of getting a penalty, but to his credit he was very good at it and cm-perfect. This gave him his speed. However, for a top-level F1 driver (important level of comparison to keep in mind) he did not really have top-shelf car control skills. If his car was extremely well balanced and nailed to the track then he could get the most of it (thanks Mr. Newey!) but if the handling was a bit vauge he lost his cm-confidence and couldn't master the car. Even Mark Webber was consistently faster than Seb for a while in one of their later seasons together when the tire spec and the aero were not working correctly to nail the car to the road...

Now Mr. Seb is at Ferrari and has been crucifying Raikkonen with raw pace. But if you remember two or three years ago Alonso was successfully driving around some Ferrari handling issues, while in contrast Raikkonen identified the symptoms and made James Allison fix the issues. Thanks to Raikkonen the current Ferrari is pretty well balanced and nailed to the track... But Seb gets all the credit.

I think Ricciardo has more underlying car control than Seb and was therefore able to consistently drive past Seb during '14 when the car never had the usual Newey perfection.

That's what I have to say about that.
I gave a very detailed response race by race. Ricciardo is miles better than Vettel just above check it if you get a chance.
In Tennis terms it would be like Djokovich beating Nishikouri 6/1 6/2 6/1 straight sets over and over again in all surfaces like grass or clay or hard court always in straight sets. The thrashing was similar

1. it would make no sense to claim Nishikouri is better when he got thrashed by such a large margin over and over again.
2. it would make no sense to claim Nishikouri is better because he beat other Japanese inferior players. We are comparing Jkokovich to Nishikouri.

It is a common theme to claim Vettel is magically quicker than Ricciardo because Vettel beat Webber who is a vastly inferior driver to Ricciardo, 10 years older way past his prime and should have retired, and who had a steel rod in his leg the entire time they raced together. Even Webber in a interview 3 weeks ago said Ricciardo is much quicker than he ever was. All this proves is Vettel is quicker than Webber. It does not prove Vettel is quicker than Ricciardo.

Also the true test of talent is in the race.
Rosberg can match Hamilton in qualifying as he can check his data. But over a 50 lap race the conditions constantly change, temperatures, tyre degradation etc. And a good driver has to get the most out of every single lap (50+)
That is why we always saw in race pace Hamilton is always about .1 second quicker. Where in qualifying Rosberg many times can match him. In race pace when both put the hammer down Hamilton is always generally quicker.

Same thing with Ricciardo. Vettel lost just slightly in Qualifying. He matched him many times as he is very good like Rosberg in copying telemtry. So clearly the redbull is fast and Vettel could get the most out of it. Proven in qualifying.

BUT in the races Vettel now is on his own. And lap after lap he was always from half a second to a wopping 2 seconds down on Ricciardo. Over and over again. Much greater than the Rosberg.Hamilton race gap.
This is why Ricciardo is hands down better than Vettel. We have an entire season of these guys together.
From race 1 to the final race. The gap between these drivers was always HUGE in the races.

Senna77
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Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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bill shoe wrote:
I think Ricciardo has more underlying car control than Seb and was therefore able to consistently drive past Seb during '14 when the car never had the usual Newey perfection.

That's what I have to say about that.
How can you claim the 2014 redbull did not have the usual Newey Perfection?
Ricciardo was a driver who never once in his F1 career never even got a whiff of the podium. The second he jumped into the Newey rocketship he came 2nd in australia which was later disqualified due to fuel flow problem.

He then went on to 8 more podiums and 3 race wins. where Vettel was down in 3rd 5th and 6th

How did Ricciardo start from the Pitt lane in Abhu Dhabi and make it 4th?

This 2014 redbull turned an average driver who most of the F1 paddock thought nothing of, who also never even came close to a podium into the driver of the year with 3 wins and 8 podiums.

If that isn't "Newey perfection" as its best i don't know what is.

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SR71
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Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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Senna77 wrote:
bill shoe wrote:
I think Ricciardo has more underlying car control than Seb and was therefore able to consistently drive past Seb during '14 when the car never had the usual Newey perfection.

That's what I have to say about that.
How can you claim the 2014 redbull did not have the usual Newey Perfection?
Ricciardo was a driver who never once in his F1 career never even got a whiff of the podium. The second he jumped into the Newey rocketship he came 2nd in australia which was later disqualified due to fuel flow problem.

He then went on to 8 more podiums and 3 race wins. where Vettel was down in 3rd 5th and 6th

How did Ricciardo start from the Pitt lane in Abhu Dhabi and make it 4th?

This 2014 redbull turned an average driver who most of the F1 paddock thought nothing of, who also never even came close to a podium into the driver of the year with 3 wins and 8 podiums.

If that isn't "Newey perfection" as its best i don't know what is.
Exactly.

2009 - Seb 2nd place
2010 - WDC
2011 - WDC
2012 - WDC
2013 - WDC
2014 - best drive of the season - succesful exit from red bull with no legal repercussions and signs 50m first year contract deAl with his dream team (which is also a works outfit) since he was a kid while also becoming the defecto team leader all led by Allison who is clearly a top 3 technical director. Not a bad season.

Let's ignore the Seb has said he knew he was going to Ferrari before Alonso knew he was being fired - just keep ignoring that because it really helps your opinion.

2015 - rated top driver of the season by fans and team principals alike - almost steals 2nd place from Nico


This guy is the new Alonso, except he's better at car development and has more WDC.

Ricciardo had 1 shiny but average and lucky season. He's a really good racer and a strong spokesperson for the sport - if not one of the best.

He's awesome to watch race. But no fan in thier right mind makes an opinion about 'better' after just one season, even if they are in the same cars, let's grow up a bit.

If you don't respect how a driver handles pressure, true WDC cracking pressure, then I'm not sure how you can even like F1.

The greats have always shown this diamond like resistance to pressure - Lewis, vettel, Alonso, etc.

I'll reserve my judgement of 'better' when I see DR make a great crack or not crack himself.

Until then Seb is the benchmark like it or not.

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SR71
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Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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Every instance you said 'vettel wouldn't do this if he was trying to goto ferrari' is exactly what he would do if he was trying to goto Ferrari.

He's smarter than you. That's probably not debatable. What he would do to break a multi million dollar contract and avoid any sort of backlash legally speaking is very different than you would do in your own life.

There is no way red bull lawyers could say vettel intentionally bombed the season after asking for 4 chassis.

Just think about that for a minute - if it doesn't make sense then I don't think we're capable of discussing contract law and negotiations. If that does make sense though I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers.

alexx_88
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Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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Alonso's seat was not even a possibility before summer break, so it's very puzzling how you can think that one of the most competitive drivers in F1 would sabotage himself just to have a tiny chance at getting into the Ferrari.

You're also not explaining why, after triggering the performance clause after Monza, he didn't just start wiping the floor with Ricciardo. It's much more plausible that Vettel was beaten fair and square.

Senna77
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Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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SR71 wrote:Every instance you said 'vettel wouldn't do this if he was trying to goto ferrari' is exactly what he would do if he was trying to goto Ferrari.

He's smarter than you. That's probably not debatable. What he would do to break a multi million dollar contract and avoid any sort of backlash legally speaking is very different than you would do in your own life.

There is no way red bull lawyers could say vettel intentionally bombed the season after asking for 4 chassis.

Just think about that for a minute - if it doesn't make sense then I don't think we're capable of discussing contract law and negotiations. If that does make sense though I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers.
:lol: :lol: :lol: So you claim Vettel continued to get thrashed even till the final race to avoid legal backlash??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
"Contract law and negotiations" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry but Matechitz said in an interview around Japan last year and i will quote him

"Red Bull mogul Dietrich Mateschitz insists he is “not disappointed” to be losing world champion Sebastian Vettel."
“We considered it neither just nor necessary to intervene,” he said, “particularly since this switch brings huge financial savings."

Sorry to tell you but Mateshitz was happy to see Vettel go at that point to save 30 million as Ricciardo was much faster and much cheaper as he was on a different cheaper contract. Clear as day in multiple interviews.

He had Ricciardo who was faster than Vettel hands down and Kyvatt ready to take the seat at a huge saving. So as soon as Vettel announced he leaving in Japan. Matescitzh also announced he doesn't care he is leaving.
Contracts over, negotations over, case closed. Vettel was off to Ferrari and redbull had already announced Kyvatt will take the seat. So all the contracts were already settled at this point.

Yet in Austin Vettel was lapping the entire race 1-2 seconds slower than Ricciardo. A gap not even Schumacher pulled on Barrichelo. Then in the final race Ricciardo smashed Vettel driving from the pitt lane to 4th while Vettel could not even get past a much slower Button and settled for 8th. Very poor overtaking ability in comparison. And watch the race. He threw the kitchen sink at Button trying to get past.

Vettel is unfortunately a vastly inferior driver to Ricciardo who had no contract to break at this point. Nice try though with this latest excuse =D>

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bdr529
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Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 19:49
Location: Canada

Re: Daniel Ricciardo's contract

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SR71 wrote: Let's ignore the Seb has said he knew he was going to Ferrari before Alonso knew he was being fired - just keep ignoring that because it really helps your opinion.
I have no problem ignoring this whole Ricciardo's better then Vettel or vice versa discussion/argument.
I do have one question though
You did mention earlier that Vettel knew in 2013 that he was leaving Red Bull for Ferrari at the end of 2014.
And yet Vettel extended his RB contract in the summer of 2013 for 1 more year taking it to the end of 2015,
essentially having it consign with the end of Alonso's Ferrari contract.
Why would he do that if he already knew in 2013 that Ferrari were going to get rid of Alonso at the end of 2014 and not at the end of 2015??

Edit: It seems alexx_88 is thinking the same thing
Last edited by bdr529 on 06 Apr 2016, 07:47, edited 1 time in total.

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