Silly Season 2016/2017

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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GPR-A duplicate2
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Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 09:00

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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ME4ME wrote: 1.) The technical team decides the overall development direction. Ultimately drivers all want the same general properties of a car. Fine tuning can be done through setup. There is no reason why Alonso would hamper car development.
Did I say, Alonso would hamper the car development? Although you can argue all drivers want same general properties, but you have seen someone like Kimi struggling badly when front end is missing for him, whereas someone like Alonso never complained about it. Last year, at Mercedes itself, after Singapore, there were some changes to suspension and suddenly, Lewis started missing the feel and started falling behind in qualifying. Some drivers like oversteery car and some prefer understeer. In the past, someone like Schumacher (based on statements from various people), could drive any type of car and get the best out of it, whereas his team mates generally struggled to get that perfect setup. It has always been a tendency for engineers to lean towards the driver who is getting the best out of the car and develop in that direction to enhance the outcome. To that point, Lewis and Nico have been on single direction and never heard either, to tune the car MORE towards their liking. Would Alonso accept a direction that engineers DEEMED TO BE RIGHT, that favors Lewis OR would Lewis not be disgruntled it is other way round? Today, they don't have that issue.
ME4ME wrote:2.) You're saying Rosberg does accept 2nd grade strategy, but Alonso doesn't? Your doing Rosberg dishonor. I think whatever agreement is in place between Mercedes and its drivers, Alonso would accept it in able to get access to the fastest car.
Again, I didn't said Rosberg accepts 2nd grade strategy. They both currently accept, THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. Leading car gets the OPTIMUM strategy. Because it is commonly agreed argument that Alonso is slightly slower on quali than Lewis, if Lewis kept getting OPTIMUM strategy and not having any advantage in that area, Alonso would feel disgruntled about it. Today, neither Lewis nor Nico have a problem with that. Although, most part of last year, Nico kept starting second and kept getting second strategy, he wasn't disgruntled about it. Will Alonso accept it on a regular basis, as Nico has done throughout 2015?
ME4ME wrote:4.) You're saying all is fine now? At least once a year, Rosberg and Hamilton have a coming-together. Not to mention the constant stress the team is under.
Better to live with known issues, if that hasn't hampered the ultimate business goals, instead of inviting a trouble that you have no clue about AND the signs of that issues are bitterly negative.

I think there are a couple of good reasons for Mercedes to replace Rosberg with Alonso:
ME4ME wrote:- Reduce the current stress. Rejuvenate the team, much like Red Bull has done by promoting Verstappen.
But that seems have given heart burn to Ricciardo already, with him continously saying it was hard on him in Barcelona and in a tone suggesting, Red Bull preferred Max, although it was probably not ! Ric knew he had Kvyat under his control, but doesn't feel the same about Max !
ME4ME wrote:- Show self believe and managerial strength
Every leading team will have their own internal challenges. You will never have two happy, high quality drivers co-existing while fighting tooth and nail for a championship. Do you think the Mercedes management could happily handle issues like Barcelona incident, when Lewis and Fernando gets involved? Think about it.
ME4ME wrote:- Put together one of the most interesting intra team battles.
Good for imagination, not essential for the business.
ME4ME wrote:- Increased marketing opportunities, Alonso is more commonly known world-wide.
Again, weigh the balance between pros and cons.
ME4ME wrote:- Respect from fans and media
No, day in day out they have to face sh*t like they faced after Russia. They need to appoint a team of letter writers. :)

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Chuckjr
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I think VET had a hard time - even with four championships - getting respect till he went to Ferrari. I noticed a number of comments here reflecting that. Lewis only has two with Merc and id say there is similar feeling, if not much more so.

Schumi's respect was his ability to take those early pos ferrai's to wins and his work with Renault. Alonso a lot for his work at Ferrari year after year taking pos ferraris to wins and his dethroning of Schumi while at Renault. His year in 2012 was phenomenal. Lewis his respect is from his time at Macca, where he had some stellar drives and won a championship. But not so much here at Merc. Like I've said, Ronald McDonald could win in that car since new engine regs took effect. Nobody's being fooled here.

Moving on...
Last edited by Chuckjr on 23 May 2016, 13:54, edited 2 times in total.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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ME4ME
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I appreciate your effort quoting and answering all those points. A+ :P

I obviously disagree with most point you make. I don't particularly see the challenges you do, in hiring Alonso. I think the root-cause of what happened in 2007 was that Hamilton was a rookie, there was no respect already in place, and he made Alonso the world champion look bad on the days that he beat him. The situation is totally different now. Mercedes, Hamilton and Alonso, they'd all know what they get into.

I see your point of "don't change a winning team". But I don't think Mercedes should resist change for the fear of the unknown. Ultimately if your standing still, you're going backwards in F1. Especially from a marketing point of view, I think there is a lot to be gained by hiring Alonso.

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Actually, Mercedes has 'chaned a winning team' already by switching the staff from one driver with the other.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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dren
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Mercedes sells the team to Toto. Toto puts Susie in the driver seat along side Werlein. Hamilton and Nico run in WEC for Mercedes and win le Mans. Renault comes out of nowhere in 2017 and wins the constructors championship but Ricciardo wins the drivers with Red Bull. Verstappen turns out to be a crashing maniac and is dropped for some new TR kid that nobody has ever heard of. F1 collapses in 2018 and all teams jump to Formula E.
Honda!

GrayGreat
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Joined: 25 Apr 2016, 07:21

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote: That is, unless the chitchat gossip is true that lewis actually has been replaced with Wehrlein due to an alleged brawl at a bar.
When did that happen? Any source? :wtf:

graham.reeds
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Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 09:16

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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A Google search returns a lot of hits for bar fights in Hamilton but none for the person. Gossip sites like that would bubble to the top very quickly.

The story is just Manoah2u bedtime fantasy.


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Scuderia1967
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GPR-A wrote:
GrayGreat wrote:[You can't state one is better than the other unless you see them driving the same car, or similar cars. It is just your opinion, not fact. If someone is not in Formula 1, it does not mean he cannot be better than the current formula 1 drivers. Stop stating your opinions as facts.
And calling someone bad, when you don't know sh*t and just because of your opinion, its called hating.
You can't simply get a tom, dick or a harry from the road side and then say, OK let them drive and now we compare. You first have to earn a seat and to get a seat in a top team, you have to earn it. Simple. Vandoorne couldn't and Max did. To that extent, Max is certainly a better driver.
Scuderia1967 wrote:Jeez, you Jumbo Verstappen loverboys are really a tight unit, aren't you? :lol:
For intellectually challenged people, these discussions are too much to handle objectively and they seek a way out. You certainly found one with that statement. Cheers for you, yeah. =D>
Thanks a lot for the flattering comment. I don't remember insulting you or any other Max fan, but what do I know, being a dimwit?

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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Rumours about Carlos Sainz and Ferrari are becoming bigger though I doubt they are real. Anyway I really would like to see Carlos in the Scuderia. That would be awesome!

StrikeForceF1
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Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 14:24

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Vasconia wrote:Rumours about Carlos Sainz and Ferrari are becoming bigger though I doubt they are real. Anyway I really would like to see Carlos in the Scuderia. That would be awesome!
Since Max is locked at RB would be awesome to see Carlos at Scuderia...I dare say could we see a rivalry the repeat of Mika and Michael.... [-o<

NL_Fer
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Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Carlos is fast, but is his race management under control now? Because in 2015 he often qualified really good, but lost positions in the race. But since this can be learned, is he making progress?

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Vasconia wrote:Rumours about Carlos Sainz and Ferrari are becoming bigger though I doubt they are real. Anyway I really would like to see Carlos in the Scuderia. That would be awesome!
let me guess.... Rumours only in the minds of the Spanish.
There is nothing that Carlos has shown that Ferrari would even notice him if he was parked in front of them.

I'm suspicious there's something wrongly programmed in the Google Translate app.
You know, every potential driver for a topteam gets replaced with something spanish.

Original: Ferrari conciders Ricciardo
Translate: Ferrari conciderá Sainz
Original: Mercedes has interest in Max
Translate: Mercedes tiene interes en Carlos
etcetc
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Sonador
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Joined: 06 May 2016, 17:26

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Vasconia wrote:Rumours about Carlos Sainz and Ferrari are becoming bigger though I doubt they are real. Anyway I really would like to see Carlos in the Scuderia. That would be awesome!
He is very fast over one lap!

But I hope he gets better on racepace, and racecraft.
Only then would he be a good fit for Ferrari, and i agree with you that it would be awesome.

A Verstappen vs Sainz part 2 only in different cars/teams.

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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Sonador wrote:
Vasconia wrote:Rumours about Carlos Sainz and Ferrari are becoming bigger though I doubt they are real. Anyway I really would like to see Carlos in the Scuderia. That would be awesome!
He is very fast over one lap!

But I hope he gets better on racepace, and racecraft.
Only then would he be a good fit for Ferrari, and i agree with you that it would be awesome.

A Verstappen vs Sainz part 2 only in different cars/teams.
I think he is improving in this aspect. He has shown a similar pace to Max. The only aspect where Max is clearly superior is overtaking. I think we will see the best version of Carlos during this season.

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