Silly Season 2016/2017

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ScottB
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Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 14:45

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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At the moment, you could make the argument that Formula E is the bigger marketing deal for Renault, at least until / if they become competitive in F1 again.

That being the case, why move Buemi, who is clearly a front running driver in that series, into F1, where he isn't, where he'll go from winning races to occasionally fighting for points?

It just potentially weakens their strength in one series, for no real gain in another.


The best thing they can do just now is keep Kevin, maybe hire an experienced head to help with car development and focus on getting the car to a point where they might be able to tempt someone like Sainz to join in 2018/19.

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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ScottB wrote:At the moment, you could make the argument that Formula E is the bigger marketing deal for Renault, at least until / if they become competitive in F1 again.

That being the case, why move Buemi, who is clearly a front running driver in that series, into F1, where he isn't, where he'll go from winning races to occasionally fighting for points?

It just potentially weakens their strength in one series, for no real gain in another.


The best thing they can do just now is keep Kevin, maybe hire an experienced head to help with car development and focus on getting the car to a point where they might be able to tempt someone like Sainz to join in 2018/19.
I still don't understand Buemi's part in all this but I'll leave it. Comparison between F-E and F1 are not helping: leading driver - rare points, what does it matter? As if putting him in F1 would be a favour to this team. IMO no one would put him in F1 car for sporting/performance reasons. He hasn't driven these cars for five years, he'd be competing with those that have, his only team-mate was Alguersuari. Why would aspiring top team hire him?

Sainz: two sides
- One hand: RB contract and it's up to them to extend it.
- Why would they be 'tempting' him as if he's Alonso? Name five races (same for Magnussen) that would indicate that he is capable of copying with top competition in every aspect. I can easily name 10 for Grosjean, many for Perez (with small '?' over Q speed), Bottas or some for Hulkenberg or Maldonado. Yes, he's been more consistent and had solid races but that's not enough. Kvyat benchmark is not particularly strong either. Monaco was good although maybe should have been in front of FI/Hulk. Very good Spain (that's one). Solid race in Canada but after bad crash, slower than Kvyat (mistakes) in Baku Q, good Austria. What else? Before Kvyat's swap - I don't recall great races.

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Oh now it gets fun, a few more good points for Buemi :P
- he was the RedBull reserve and test driver up to 2015, prob having spend several holidays in their high tech sim. He would be ideal for Renaults' ambitions for the future by helping their sim efforts (I presume it's one of the things that's on their to-do list)
- he's a great guy

ScottB
4
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 14:45

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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iotar__ wrote:
ScottB wrote:At the moment, you could make the argument that Formula E is the bigger marketing deal for Renault, at least until / if they become competitive in F1 again.

That being the case, why move Buemi, who is clearly a front running driver in that series, into F1, where he isn't, where he'll go from winning races to occasionally fighting for points?

It just potentially weakens their strength in one series, for no real gain in another.


The best thing they can do just now is keep Kevin, maybe hire an experienced head to help with car development and focus on getting the car to a point where they might be able to tempt someone like Sainz to join in 2018/19.
I still don't understand Buemi's part in all this but I'll leave it. Comparison between F-E and F1 are not helping: leading driver - rare points, what does it matter? As if putting him in F1 would be a favour to this team. IMO no one would put him in F1 car for sporting/performance reasons. He hasn't driven these cars for five years, he'd be competing with those that have, his only team-mate was Alguersuari. Why would aspiring top team hire him?

Sainz: two sides
- One hand: RB contract and it's up to them to extend it.
- Why would they be 'tempting' him as if he's Alonso? Name five races (same for Magnussen) that would indicate that he is capable of copying with top competition in every aspect. I can easily name 10 for Grosjean, many for Perez (with small '?' over Q speed), Bottas or some for Hulkenberg or Maldonado. Yes, he's been more consistent and had solid races but that's not enough. Kvyat benchmark is not particularly strong either. Monaco was good although maybe should have been in front of FI/Hulk. Very good Spain (that's one). Solid race in Canada but after bad crash, slower than Kvyat (mistakes) in Baku Q, good Austria. What else? Before Kvyat's swap - I don't recall great races.
Sainz seemed like a realistic target; young, potential, and could well be available, as long as there's no room at RBR. Kyvat's on the way out, Grosjean, I suppose he could come back, Perez, probably aiming higher up the grid.

In any case, I agree I see no point in going for Buemi. Who they do manage to get might say a lot about their progression; an experienced head, a perennial midfielder, a young gun or a front runner... Time will tell I suppose.

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Well, thats the problem now that Renault faces. Every works team has it's driver with that special edge. Mercedes has Hamilton, Ferrari Vettel, Honda has Alonso and RedBull has the two young challengers. Sainz is a good driver but hasn't shown that special edge and there is no driver at the moment that can fall into that list. And if they are not careful they end up with a frustrated Irvine solution.

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Racer X
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013, 19:04

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I don't see Renault loosing either drivers I mean they could keep both to develop the car and make a choice next year.
I don't see to many changes for next year.

I bet Perez and Hulk too are retained at FI.

Sauber will probably be the team to get new Drivers and Maybe Williams.
RedBull Racing Checo//PEREZ

RA168E
1
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 02:30

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I really hope Magnussen gets to stay in with Renault, he has a really likeable personality and a fighty driving style. I love that in a driver. I know when i go out and race Mini-Stock Cars the punchiest ones win, and he really seems like that kind of guy.

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Jolle wrote:Well, thats the problem now that Renault faces. Every works team has it's driver with that special edge. Mercedes has Hamilton, Ferrari Vettel, Honda has Alonso and RedBull has the two young challengers. Sainz is a good driver but hasn't shown that special edge and there is no driver at the moment that can fall into that list. And if they are not careful they end up with a frustrated Irvine solution.
Sainz is young(very young), he is ambitions and he has talent. Yes, he hasnt been so spectacular as Vertappen, but wo has been?. He is improving rapidly and I think he could be a very interesting driver for Renault in 2017/18. He is delivering on every race, just give him an interesting project and a car, and he will deliver. As I have already said there are drivers like Ricciardo which werent that spectacular at the beginning(his TR years were good but nothing remarkable) and they bumb!! they have the appropiate car and they deliver(2014).

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Vasconia wrote:
Jolle wrote:Well, thats the problem now that Renault faces. Every works team has it's driver with that special edge. Mercedes has Hamilton, Ferrari Vettel, Honda has Alonso and RedBull has the two young challengers. Sainz is a good driver but hasn't shown that special edge and there is no driver at the moment that can fall into that list. And if they are not careful they end up with a frustrated Irvine solution.
Sainz is young(very young), he is ambitions and he has talent. Yes, he hasnt been so spectacular as Vertappen, but wo has been?. He is improving rapidly and I think he could be a very interesting driver for Renault in 2017/18. He is delivering on every race, just give him an interesting project and a car, and he will deliver. As I have already said there are drivers like Ricciardo which werent that spectacular at the beginning(his TR years were good but nothing remarkable) and they bumb!! they have the appropiate car and they deliver(2014).
I'm not saying he isn't a very good driver, but he hasn't got the same impact as Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton and now Verstappen at their debut in F1. More like Ricciardo, Button or Coultard. Fast, steady (when you get the silly mistakes out) and reliable.

NL_Fer
82
Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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For me Saintz has shown speed mosly, but he still developing during races. Tyre management, overtaking, it is getting better, but he still has to learn.

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I agree with both of you. Not an initial impact as the other drives mentioned but a potential is there and he is improving steadly. Pure speed is here and his races are improving, which was something which he needed to do. He is only 21 years old, something to take into account, top drivers like Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso became WC with 2-4 years more and the best car. so give him som time to mature.

Next season will decide his future in F1 so he must deliver and then choose correctly what project can be interesting for him.

hemichromis
14
Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 15:00

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Any news on Nico for Mercedes next year?

He's been looking less impressive since monaco, do we think Mercedes are looking elsewhere?

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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hemichromis wrote:Any news on Nico for Mercedes next year?

He's been looking less impressive since monaco, do we think Mercedes are looking elsewhere?
I imagine they are waiting a bit how the championship develops (you don't let your WC leader go) and how and if he picks himself up after the summer break again.
If his championship doesn't work this year, it will be 4-0 for Lewis. More frustration, more chances to clash and loose points. Also, if the cars next year are 5-7s faster, Nico might be on the back foot even more.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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The toro rosso will be very quick next year so Sainz is in a very good place.
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ScottB
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Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 14:45

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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hemichromis wrote:Any news on Nico for Mercedes next year?

He's been looking less impressive since monaco, do we think Mercedes are looking elsewhere?
Unless they have another major coming together, I don't think they'd change, as there's no incentive to.

I mean, if say, Verstappen was available, then maybe things would be different, but who that is available would come in and do a better job? Pascal hasn't shown enough to get the promotion, yet anyway, and the rest of the guys who'd be easily obtained for next year aren't anything that would trouble Lewis, so may as well keep Nico, who is quick enough to push Lewis / win races in his own right, as long as the on track crashes stop, as mentioned.

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