Silly Season 2016/2017

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NL_Fer
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Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I expect the 2017 Torro Rosso to be allot closer to Redbull, racing with McLaren for 4th row. Sainz can shine there and increase his market value and select a topseat in 2018. Renault has a long way to go.

For the short term i think Mercedes and Redbull will be fighting 1-2, Ferrari 3 and a very big group fighting for 4-10 with McLaren, Torro Rosso, Renault, Force India, Williams, Haas and Sauber forming a competitive midfield.

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nevill3
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I thought in interviews in the media pen at the last race Perez just about confirmed he was staying at Force India, Sainz is also confirmed for Torro Rosso so the speculation that the merry go round is waiting for Perez's decision is wrong.

Renault is the main contender for any aspiring driver with Mercedes, RedBull, McHonda and Ferrari seats already sewn up and I firmly believe that McHonda will surprise everyone next year with the lapsing of the token system. They have only been held back from major improvements due to trying to maximise any performance gains so far by utilising the meagre token allowance they have had to implement the most profitable improvements.

I do not think Palmer will be racing next year unless it is with Manor, Magnussen could be retained because of his experience which would be helpful in developing the new car next year.
Sent from my Commodore PET in 1978

edu2703
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Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 23:47
Location: Brazil

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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nevill3 wrote:Magnussen could be retained because of his experience which would be helpful in developing the new car next year.
Honestly I doubt that Magnussen will stay in Renault. His two crashes caused by his driving mistakes took more attention than his good performance in the Russian GP this year.

Magnussen is impatient with Renault. He doesn't want a repeat of what happened in 2014 when McLaren decided that he would not be on the team in 2015 at the end of the year. So he didn't get a seat in other teams because there was no seats available.

If Sergio Perez, Valtteri Bottas and Carlos Sainz Jr. refuse the proposal of Renault, Magnussen still have to fight for a seat with an old acquaintance: Felipe Nasr.

Felipe Nasr, besides having big sponsorship, has something in his favor: Your results in Jr. categories.

2011 British Formula Three: Kevin Magnussen was teammate of Felipe Nasr. In this year, Nasr dominated the series and won the championship 123 points ahead of the second placed Kevin Magnussen with the same car. This can be used to convince (not to prove) that Nasr is better than Magnussen.

BeardedAce
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Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 19:16

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Would love to see Perez in Renault colors.

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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edu2703 wrote:
nevill3 wrote:Magnussen could be retained because of his experience which would be helpful in developing the new car next year.
Honestly I doubt that Magnussen will stay in Renault. His two crashes caused by his driving mistakes took more attention than his good performance in the Russian GP this year.

Magnussen is impatient with Renault. He doesn't want a repeat of what happened in 2014 when McLaren decided that he would not be on the team in 2015 at the end of the year. So he didn't get a seat in other teams because there was no seats available.

If Sergio Perez, Valtteri Bottas and Carlos Sainz Jr. refuse the proposal of Renault, Magnussen still have to fight for a seat with an old acquaintance: Felipe Nasr.

Felipe Nasr, besides having big sponsorship, has something in his favor: Your results in Jr. categories.

2011 British Formula Three: Kevin Magnussen was teammate of Felipe Nasr. In this year, Nasr dominated the series and won the championship 123 points ahead of the second placed Kevin Magnussen with the same car. This can be used to convince (not to prove) that Nasr is better than Magnussen.
- Really? Is that repeat of Buemi, some ancient history of team-mates in lower junior series from 5-6 ('17) years ignoring everything after that? I'm sure every F1 team principle will faint remembering that. Are we talking about the same Nasr that got his GP2 wins in meaningless reverse grid races (bad memory) and showed close to nothing in F1?

- What does "if Sainz refuses Reanult" mean? He has nothing do say, if RB extend his contract that's it. Except for Spanish sponsors he has no qualities to consider him for Renault. He just messed up another race, but he should not worry, those who make drivers decisions either don't watch, understand or don't care =P~ . Another season Toro Rosso losing WCC place because of drivers - lost in marketing noise of course.

- Magnussen can say he's impatient, it means nothing. What other options does he have, Sauber? In translated from Danish media interview (can't find the link and don't know if it's reliable) he claims that
A. he can't sign anywhere else until certain date, one sided extension option
B. driver delay is because of 'power struggle' between Abiteoul and Vasseur. Would be weird to me but whatever. It's chaos anyway.

langwadt
35
Joined: 25 Mar 2012, 14:54

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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iotar__ wrote:
edu2703 wrote:
nevill3 wrote:Magnussen could be retained because of his experience which would be helpful in developing the new car next year.
Honestly I doubt that Magnussen will stay in Renault. His two crashes caused by his driving mistakes took more attention than his good performance in the Russian GP this year.

Magnussen is impatient with Renault. He doesn't want a repeat of what happened in 2014 when McLaren decided that he would not be on the team in 2015 at the end of the year. So he didn't get a seat in other teams because there was no seats available.

If Sergio Perez, Valtteri Bottas and Carlos Sainz Jr. refuse the proposal of Renault, Magnussen still have to fight for a seat with an old acquaintance: Felipe Nasr.

Felipe Nasr, besides having big sponsorship, has something in his favor: Your results in Jr. categories.

2011 British Formula Three: Kevin Magnussen was teammate of Felipe Nasr. In this year, Nasr dominated the series and won the championship 123 points ahead of the second placed Kevin Magnussen with the same car. This can be used to convince (not to prove) that Nasr is better than Magnussen.
- Really? Is that repeat of Buemi, some ancient history of team-mates in lower junior series from 5-6 ('17) years ignoring everything after that? I'm sure every F1 team principle will faint remembering that. Are we talking about the same Nasr that got his GP2 wins in meaningless reverse grid races (bad memory) and showed close to nothing in F1?

- What does "if Sainz refuses Reanult" mean? He has nothing do say, if RB extend his contract that's it. Except for Spanish sponsors he has no qualities to consider him for Renault. He just messed up another race, but he should not worry, those who make drivers decisions either don't watch, understand or don't care =P~ . Another season Toro Rosso losing WCC place because of drivers - lost in marketing noise of course.

- Magnussen can say he's impatient, it means nothing. What other options does he have, Sauber? In translated from Danish media interview (can't find the link and don't know if it's reliable) he claims that
A. he can't sign anywhere else until certain date, one sided extension option
B. driver delay is because of 'power struggle' between Abiteoul and Vasseur. Would be weird to me but whatever. It's chaos anyway.
what I heard from him was that Renault has an option for next year and until that expires there's no point in looking elsewhere. But he doesn't want to end up in the same situation as with McLaren, so if they can't make
up their mind in a reasonable time he will start looking for other places to go

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gary123
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Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 20:49
Location: Italy

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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edu2703 wrote:
nevill3 wrote:Magnussen could be retained because of his experience which would be helpful in developing the new car next year.
Honestly I doubt that Magnussen will stay in Renault. His two crashes caused by his driving mistakes took more attention than his good performance in the Russian GP this year.

Magnussen is impatient with Renault. He doesn't want a repeat of what happened in 2014 when McLaren decided that he would not be on the team in 2015 at the end of the year. So he didn't get a seat in other teams because there was no seats available.

If Sergio Perez, Valtteri Bottas and Carlos Sainz Jr. refuse the proposal of Renault, Magnussen still have to fight for a seat with an old acquaintance: Felipe Nasr.

Felipe Nasr, besides having big sponsorship, has something in his favor: Your results in Jr. categories.

2011 British Formula Three: Kevin Magnussen was teammate of Felipe Nasr. In this year, Nasr dominated the series and won the championship 123 points ahead of the second placed Kevin Magnussen with the same car. This can be used to convince (not to prove) that Nasr is better than Magnussen.
Magnussen was at his first season while Nasr raced for the full 2010 season and funished fifth.
Kevin is a good driver not a Vettel or Hamilton but he is not worst than drivers like Grosjean Hulkenberg and others.

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OneAlex
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Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 13:31
Location: England

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I think Grosjean is realising his Ferrari dream is slipping as he seems to be becoming impatient with Haas... I can imagine him looking at the Renault seat and wishing he was back there as their French team leader.

Any chance of it happening (if not 2017, 2018)?

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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OneAlex wrote:I think Grosjean is realising his Ferrari dream is slipping as he seems to be becoming impatient with Haas... I can imagine him looking at the Renault seat and wishing he was back there as their French team leader.

Any chance of it happening (if not 2017, 2018)?
I think the shift of (almost all) teams of development to 2017 makes a lot of drivers frustrated. We've seen that up and down the pit lane every last year of a formula. They know that they won't get any chance to make a step forward anymore.

2018 he has a double chance at Ferrari, so he's comfy at the moment (plus already on contract for 2017)

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ME4ME
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Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 16:37

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Double chance, or no chance at all if he continues like he does. He is arrogant, complaining about the team publicly and has currently a hard time beating Guttierez. Frankly 2017 can be his last season, especially if Haas starts asking for more money after missing out on FOM income.

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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iotar__ wrote:
- What does "if Sainz refuses Reanult" mean? He has nothing do say, if RB extend his contract that's it. Except for Spanish sponsors he has no qualities to consider him for Renault. He just messed up another race, but he should not worry, those who make drivers decisions either don't watch, understand or don't care =P~ . Another season Toro Rosso losing WCC place because of drivers - lost in marketing noise of course.
Did you watch the race? first of all, he made a great qualifying, second he was forced to stop because of the damages caused in the first lap incident and third, his engine lost power during a great part of the race. I dont see any reason to blame him, and once again he delivered when the car was ok(Saturday).

Renault has said more than once that he is an interesting driver and RB extended his contract with the clear intention of making some profit(cheaper engines) thanks to Renault if he goes to the French team.

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Im still in the middle of Grosjean. I think he's atleast above average, or rather, hes's atleast rather good, but then at the same time, i wonder what he really can bring to a team.
He did magnificient with Haas, but one may wonder how much that was fully due to Grosjean and how much was due to the brand new 'Ferrari B'. As Haas seems to fall back
with development compared to the rest of the field, and Guiterrez seems to start maturing as a driver, im not sure where to place Grosjean.

He did great at Lotus, and he did great with Haas, but as much as he did great, he also had enough moments where it was a bit underwhelming.
I think Grosjean is a very competitive nr2 driver. A tad below Nico Rosberg, and probably comparable to Mark Webber. I rate him lower than Jenson Button though.

I just dont see where he'd decently go.

Offcourse he'd be looking for a chance at Ferrari, but i highly doubt Ferrari benefits from him compared to other drivers. Why, for example, replace kimi with romain?
Kimi is guaranteed success (he beat Grosjean btw), whereas Grosjean is a question mark. Vettel-Kimi works, but Vettel-Grosjean remains to be seen. I also think
Ferrari would need somebody even more spectacular than Kimi, and Grosjean doesnt fit that bill.
I dont really know who would at this point though, but Romain ? Dont see it.

I see Romain ending up in Mclaren or Williams before that, and i cant realy see Williams happening so i'll leave it at that regarding Ferrari.

Renault? Why. he's been there, done that.
What can he bring but experience? Sure that is valuable, but then Renault is looking for a pusher, team leader, superstar. Im sorry to say that i dont see
Grosjean being that. And that would mean at best, Romain will get a nr2 position, but i dont think that is a big benefit for Romain, and frankly, i think Renault prefers
to put a big money-bringing nr2 instead of him.

If i had to do a guess, i say Romain will be with Haas another year in F1 next year,
and then move to NASCAR, INDY or any of the American series and be competitive there - perhaps even win an Indycar race.

Button is already out, Massa is out, expect Alonso to stop with F1 mid 2017 if Mclaren isnt able to win - unless shockingly he can get in a RedBull but i reaaaly dont see that happening - and i think as others above do, that 2018 will see Romain and Hulkenberg step out of F1, too. Grosjean will be 32 in 2018 season start, and hulkenberg going towards 31.

As for the 'older' drivers remaining, that leaves Nico Rosberg, Lewis Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen.

I think 2017 is the last year for Kimi in F1, and I can see Lewis staying a bit longer, probably moving to Ferrari to do what nobody has done there after Schumacher left,
but only if he will put the people and finances in place there which will make that possible. He'd be Maranello's new hero, and it would be a pretty awesome end to his career.
If he manages to have his 4th WDC this year, he's "only" 3 WDC's away to equal Schumacher's record. Hamilton-Vettel would be interesting.

As for Rosberg, if he doesnt become WDC this year, i think he'll fade away fast in 2017, and might move to either Renault or Mclaren in 2018 and stop F1 in 2020,
and as for Vettel, if he doesnt get a winning Ferrari next year, he'll either go 2018 to Mercedes or Mclaren, or up and leave F1 alltogether.

So 2018?
Raikkonen out, Hulkenberg out, Grosjean out.
By 2020 i can only see Lewis Hamilton and Rosberg in F1 as the 'old boys' IF Lewis gets to drive for Ferrari. If not, he's out in 2019 by his own decision.

All this is based upon the expectation that Mercedes will lose their advantage as they had untill now as of 2017.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

edu2703
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Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 23:47
Location: Brazil

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Esteban Ocon is not having a good debut in F1. Ocon is easily outperformed by his teammate in qualify and race. Much easier than Haryanto.

If you say that because of Ocon is still adjusting to the car, for a guy who won the European F3 championship and GP3 championship in his debut season, doesn't seem to be a convincing explanation.

And I don't know if this can influence in his negotiations with Renault for 2017.

edu2703
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Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 23:47
Location: Brazil

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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iotar__ wrote:
edu2703 wrote:
nevill3 wrote:Magnussen could be retained because of his experience which would be helpful in developing the new car next year.
Honestly I doubt that Magnussen will stay in Renault. His two crashes caused by his driving mistakes took more attention than his good performance in the Russian GP this year.

Magnussen is impatient with Renault. He doesn't want a repeat of what happened in 2014 when McLaren decided that he would not be on the team in 2015 at the end of the year. So he didn't get a seat in other teams because there was no seats available.

If Sergio Perez, Valtteri Bottas and Carlos Sainz Jr. refuse the proposal of Renault, Magnussen still have to fight for a seat with an old acquaintance: Felipe Nasr.

Felipe Nasr, besides having big sponsorship, has something in his favor: Your results in Jr. categories.

2011 British Formula Three: Kevin Magnussen was teammate of Felipe Nasr. In this year, Nasr dominated the series and won the championship 123 points ahead of the second placed Kevin Magnussen with the same car. This can be used to convince (not to prove) that Nasr is better than Magnussen.
- Really? Is that repeat of Buemi, some ancient history of team-mates in lower junior series from 5-6 ('17) years ignoring everything after that? I'm sure every F1 team principle will faint remembering that. Are we talking about the same Nasr that got his GP2 wins in meaningless reverse grid races (bad memory) and showed close to nothing in F1?
Please #-o #-o #-o Nasr has 4 wins and 20 podium in GP2, for you how many were achieved helped by reverse grid rule? Nasr only start once in pole position in GP2.

First, I'm am not a fan of Felipe Nasr and I not trying to promote him, but you say he showed close to nothing in F1 is absolutely ridiculous and shows total ignorance you have about him and other drivers.

He drives a bad car and what you do to evaluate his performance? Only check his results on Wikipedia? You probably saw that he didn't score points this year and because of that, you said he did almost nothing in F1.

I can list a number of things that Nasr did in F1 what I consider ''excellent'', due to bad car he drives in 2015 and in 2016, starting with his debut race until his last race. If you want....

One thing I don't like in this forum are the comments like, '' Driver X is good '', '' Driver Y is bad '', ''Driver X deserves to be in a better team. '' I always ask: Why? What are your arguments?

You can say that Nasr is a bad driver, but show arguments to defend your point of view. I show arguments. If they are convincing or not, you decide. But when you exaggerate in your arguments, using lies or based on a hate speech, I will call you ''ignorant''.
Last edited by edu2703 on 20 Sep 2016, 04:05, edited 1 time in total.

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ME4ME
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Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 16:37

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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edu2703 wrote: I can list a number of things that Nasr did in F1 what I consider ''excellent'', due to bad car he drives in 2015 and in 2016, starting with his debut race until his last race. If you want
Please do.

Two very basic but telling arguments against Nasr is that with a better car he cannot do what Wehrlein has done, and that Ericsson was able to drive with a chassi which Nasr struggled with. Besides his first f1 race i cannot recall a single highlight of him.

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