2017 tyre testing cars

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djos
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby djos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:29 am

Manoah2u wrote:so wait, let me get this straight;

http://www.newsf1.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/095_A2W4282.jpg

the front wheels aren't alligned with the outer part of the rear wheels, but with the inner part?
meaning, the rear wheels stand outside of the front wheels? that can't do well for handling?!

i mean, i can see the rear wheels sticking out compared to the front wheels.

or is this just optic illusion?


not an illusion, you are correct. This isnt new to F1 tho at all.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Thunders
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Thunders » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:33 am

@Manoah2u: If you look at the Pictures on Page 10 it seems like the outer edges are alligned. So i would go for "Optical Illusion" although even in the Pic you posted it seems more like the outer edges are alligned than the inner ones.

timbo
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby timbo » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:42 am

IMO this is to do with the fact that new tyres are fitted to the old suspension/hubs. It may be different on "real" cars.

djos
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby djos » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:43 am

timbo wrote:IMO this is to do with the fact that new tyres are fitted to the old suspension/hubs. It may be different on "real" cars.


good point, although many F1 eras have had asymmetric track widths.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Tim.Wright
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Tim.Wright » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:45 am

Manoah2u wrote:the front wheels aren't alligned with the outer part of the rear wheels, but with the inner part?
meaning, the rear wheels stand outside of the front wheels? that can't do well for handling?!


Why?

Just means you need different springs and bars to get the same roll stiffness.
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Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Manoah2u » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:00 pm

the wider the front wheels are positioned, the more stable you can 'slam' the car into a corner.
offcourse different springs and bars will influence roll stiffness, but i personally would prefer having the wheels as far out as possible to 'allign'.
curious on how the cars will corner next year. will we get more 'rallying'?

either way, i'm happy the way the looks are going.
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Henk
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Henk » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:16 pm

Manoah2u wrote:so wait, let me get this straight;

the front wheels aren't alligned with the outer part of the rear wheels, but with the inner part?
meaning, the rear wheels stand outside of the front wheels? that can't do well for handling?!

i mean, i can see the rear wheels sticking out compared to the front wheels.

or is this just optic illusion?


If the theory of old suspension new tires holds, the front and rear tires aren't aligned with the inner or the outer part. The current rears are wider than the fronts and the alignment is on the outer part.

I just had to be nitpicky. I think the new regs state a singular track width. So the outer parts will be aligned if my understanding of the relationship between track width and grip is correct.

Postmoe
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Postmoe » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:24 pm

Those cars are way too fat for some tracks. Don't get me wrong, I'm like Sir Mix A Lot, likin'em with back. But some GP's are going to bee dull.

Tim.Wright
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Tim.Wright » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:01 pm

Manoah2u wrote:the wider the front wheels are positioned, the more stable you can 'slam' the car into a corner.


Based on what exactly?

The response of the front and the rear axles depends on dozens of things of which many create redundant effects. In other words a change of track width can be compensated for using springs, arbs, roll centre heights, ackerman geom etc to reproduce the original behaviour (if you really want it so bad).
Not the engineer at Force India

zac510
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby zac510 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:17 pm

manoah2u, go have a look at a Ferrari 360 (or similar) and you'll see the rear track is narrower than the front. It's different to F1 again. Vehicle dynamics is weird (and hard)!

Holm86
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Holm86 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:55 pm

zac510 wrote:manoah2u, go have a look at a Ferrari 360 (or similar) and you'll see the rear track is narrower than the front. It's different to F1 again. Vehicle dynamics is weird (and hard)!


Track is measured from center to center of the wheels, so you need a wider track at the front, if you have wider tires at the rear, if you still want the outside of the tires to be aligned.

I really really wish they could enforce a maximum wheelbase which would be shorter than today. It looks terrible, and make the cars too stable.

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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Formula Wrong » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:35 pm

Postmoe wrote:Those cars are way too fat for some tracks. Don't get me wrong, I'm like Sir Mix A Lot, likin'em with back. But some GP's are going to bee dull.


They aren't. The narrowest part in Baku, which is 7.6 meters, would in theory be enough for 3 cars (while still having some space between them).

In Monaco, too, the track often seems narrower than it actually is:
Image

It's further explained in this article.

So the width shouldn't cause any concerns about that.
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Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Manoah2u » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:48 pm

lol, how can we talk about wide cars being a problem, did people forget the pre '98 era so fast?

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and really, it ain't that huge a difference, it's more visually impacting then actual measurements - though offcourse it will also have great performance results.

Image
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Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Blackout
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Blackout » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:03 am

Thunders wrote:whoever thinks next Years Cars will look like A1GP's needs some serious Glasses.


I meant the rear wing (endplates) and I wrote RW but when I edited the link later, I inadvertently deleted 'RW' :P

Postmoe
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Postby Postmoe » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:30 am

[quote="Manoah2u"]lol, how can we talk about wide cars being a problem, did people forget the pre '98 era so fast?

/quote]

Because it's far away, and you are older than me. My memories of F1 start a couple of years after Senna's death and then everything was magical, no tech involved for a kid. 2000's as a starting point for a more in depth understanding, although very basic. And the first cars I started to understand were the infamous turbulent masters, the likes of Toyota "follow me" diffuser-cars...

So, perhaps irrationally, when I consider those cars plus some wider track I get concerned.




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