2017 tyre testing cars

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PhillipM
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by PhillipM » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:18 pm

The track width is less of an issue for side by side running on tight tracks than the wheelbase to be honest, cars are very long compared to what they used to be and it hurts them if they try to go around the outside on a tight corner just because they can't get enough yaw angle.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:51 pm

@postmoe

Well good point,
though i wasn't solely pointing at you, buddy. ;)

This forum is filled with various aged members so i'm surprised these actual statements 'stay'. It's not the first time put in the air.

anyway, i'm not worried there.
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by godlameroso » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:53 pm

PhillipM wrote:The track width is less of an issue for side by side running on tight tracks than the wheelbase to be honest, cars are very long compared to what they used to be and it hurts them if they try to go around the outside on a tight corner just because they can't get enough yaw angle.
Kind of how big shipping trucks take wide right turns, or left depending on which part of the world you live in.
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silvertouringz
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by silvertouringz » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:24 pm

Pirelli wants more teams for 2017 tire testing

Pirelli wants to include more teams in the 2017 tire testing, and wants to run on a wider variety of tracks.

2017’s testing started in August, with a total of 24 days at Fiorano, Mugello, Barcelona, Paul Ricard and Abu Dhabi completed using modified 2015-spec F1 cars from Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull.

Other constructors were not able to take part in the testing due to costs involved in tweaking the cars for next year’s wider tires.

“Once we have the list of teams available we will make with the FIA a calendar in order to distribute or to make a rotation of the tests and distribute the tests equally,” Pirelli added.

http://f1insider.net/2016/12/07/pirelli ... e-testing/

jknights
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by jknights » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:25 am

All this seems to be a bit farcical.
Why dont the FIA just say, 'Go testing as and when you can and want to!' Just like the old days. We need to get decent testing of the tyres and new cars.
Too much tinkering with the rules. Just let's get the job done.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:42 am

The whole reason for banning/reducing testing was to limit cost. The big teams (Ferrari particularly) spent more on testing than they did racing. One reason Ferrari dominated at the beginning of the 2000s was because they just out-spent everyone on testing. They had bespoke tyres from Bridgestone each race - again lots of testing required. A return to that would kill F1.
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f1316
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by f1316 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:32 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:The whole reason for banning/reducing testing was to limit cost. The big teams (Ferrari particularly) spent more on testing than they did racing. One reason Ferrari dominated at the beginning of the 2000s was because they just out-spent everyone on testing. They had bespoke tyres from Bridgestone each race - again lots of testing required. A return to that would kill F1.
Well, a few things on that:

- obviously you wouldn't get bespoke tyres in a single tyre manufacturer formula, so that's not a factor any more

- there's no indication budgets have been reduced as a result of no testing; teams just find other ways to spend the money - whether that's simulators, rolling roads or whatever, it's just swapping one expense for another (and not even thinking about the engine R+D Mercedes must have spent)

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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by iotar__ » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:28 am

f1316 wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:The whole reason for banning/reducing testing was to limit cost. The big teams (Ferrari particularly) spent more on testing than they did racing. One reason Ferrari dominated at the beginning of the 2000s was because they just out-spent everyone on testing. They had bespoke tyres from Bridgestone each race - again lots of testing required. A return to that would kill F1.
Well, a few things on that:

- there's no indication budgets have been reduced as a result of no testing; teams just find other ways to spend the money - whether that's simulators, rolling roads or whatever, it's just swapping one expense for another (and not even thinking about the engine R+D Mercedes must have spent)
- There's every indication that spending on testing has been reduced because of lack of testing :-)
- Different teams spend money in different ways and count money in different ways (cost - reward) so no it's not exactly they spend it anyway on something else = pointless. The very subject of this thread - another proof.
- Tests are an important burden on budgets especially (I'm guessing) pre-season ones because of accumulation of costs at this particular time (new cars). Real world examples of Lotus, Sauber or better Force India show in recent years that trade-off decisions of skipping made sense for them.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by Manoah2u » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:17 pm

iotar__ wrote:
f1316 wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:The whole reason for banning/reducing testing was to limit cost. The big teams (Ferrari particularly) spent more on testing than they did racing. One reason Ferrari dominated at the beginning of the 2000s was because they just out-spent everyone on testing. They had bespoke tyres from Bridgestone each race - again lots of testing required. A return to that would kill F1.
Well, a few things on that:

- there's no indication budgets have been reduced as a result of no testing; teams just find other ways to spend the money - whether that's simulators, rolling roads or whatever, it's just swapping one expense for another (and not even thinking about the engine R+D Mercedes must have spent)
- There's every indication that spending on testing has been reduced because of lack of testing :-)
#-o #-o are you for real =D>

that money used before for testing has been now put in simulation, r&d, and then put in testing days and during racing.
- Different teams spend money in different ways and count money in different ways (cost - reward) so no it's not exactly they spend it anyway on something else = pointless. The very subject of this thread - another proof.
if you find this thread pointless, you should not participate in it, as it would make your post rather pointless, doesn't it.
- Tests are an important burden on budgets especially (I'm guessing) pre-season ones because of accumulation of costs at this particular time (new cars). Real world examples of Lotus, Sauber or better Force India show in recent years that trade-off decisions of skipping made sense for them.
Real world example; Lotus would have gone bankrupt if Renault didnt buy them.

Sauber is on the verge of being bankrupt and is rather rock bottom.

Force India is the exception of the rule,

the question is however how much they saved from not participating in testing in getting 'benefit' from it.

One might wonder if having the right funds available AND participating in testing would have made it possible for them to move even further forward, 3rd WCC spot possibly. Knowing the situation they are in financially - weren't they in a difficult situation to actually pay their crew always on time, suggesting financial problems ( after all, that means they have zero room for backup )? In other words; would they have no financial struggles, then some extra money would have made it possible for them to advance even further up the field,
thats after all how it works.
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Italiano
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by Italiano » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:04 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:A return to that would kill F1.
:lol: :lol: :lol: It's already dead.
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by WaikeCU » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:51 pm

Tbh it's more to that than your average budget spend on testing and cost allocation towards car development. Logistically also isn't great either. Yes, it's too cold to proper test the new cars in Europe during the Winter, but flying to Bahrain/Yas Marina isn't a great option either when almost all of the teams are from Europe.
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Pierce89
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by Pierce89 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:39 pm

Thunders wrote:@Manoah2u: If you look at the Pictures on Page 10 it seems like the outer edges are alligned. So i would go for "Optical Illusion" although even in the Pic you posted it seems more like the outer edges are alligned than the inner ones.
Of course it optical illusion. The tire on both ends will be out to the maximum width.
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by Henk » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:52 pm

Pierce89 wrote:
Thunders wrote:@Manoah2u: If you look at the Pictures on Page 10 it seems like the outer edges are alligned. So i would go for "Optical Illusion" although even in the Pic you posted it seems more like the outer edges are alligned than the inner ones.
Of course it optical illusion. The tire on both ends will be out to the maximum width.
That means the teams have designed new front suspension. I'm not sure they did because of both the costs and the rules of the testing cars by the FIA.

Unrelated point: Where would teams position the brakes and hub and how hollow are the rear rims?

Pierce89
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by Pierce89 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:46 pm

Henk wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:
Thunders wrote:@Manoah2u: If you look at the Pictures on Page 10 it seems like the outer edges are alligned. So i would go for "Optical Illusion" although even in the Pic you posted it seems more like the outer edges are alligned than the inner ones.
Of course it optical illusion. The tire on both ends will be out to the maximum width.
That means the teams have designed new front suspension. I'm not sure they did because of both the costs and the rules of the testing cars by the FIA.

Unrelated point: Where would teams position the brakes and hub and how hollow are the rear rims?
Are we talking about 2017 or the goofy '15 test cars? If we're talking about the test cars, then i retract my statement. I'm sure they just thre the tires on old suspensions, as the testing was mainly about aero loading and the speed and force increases that entails.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
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“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
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denizer
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

Post by denizer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:20 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:The whole reason for banning/reducing testing was to limit cost. The big teams (Ferrari particularly) spent more on testing than they did racing. One reason Ferrari dominated at the beginning of the 2000s was because they just out-spent everyone on testing. They had bespoke tyres from Bridgestone each race - again lots of testing required. A return to that would kill F1.
Still, this kind of testing is useless. They can still limit the testing but let teams try their 2017 cars. Probably big teams can do that sooner and smaller teams will use their turn whenever they can get a car ready to test, even if it is after the season start...



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