The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
GPR-A
76
User avatar
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby GPR-A » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:07 pm

turbof1 wrote:Maybe hero was not the best description. Let's call it politically correct your 'prefered driver'. Anyway, nice attempt at beating around the bush as even Hamilton finds Rosberg a deserving champion.
Who is to say it wasn't a way to move forward? For junkies here (including me), it doesn't matter if we aruge on and on and on. But for him, it is absolute necessary to wash his mind and move on. I would wait for that book that is going to come after 10 years. :lol:

turbof1 wrote:You know what, good for him. It'll bring back balance between the 2 and allows for some friendship again. Let's not forget they have grown up with eachother. That's not simply erased by rivalry. Even Senna and Prost were able to reconsile right before the former's unfortunate end. I sincerely believe if Senna still lived, he would done magnficent and significant things together with Prost for the sport. Hey, thinking about that makes me emotional after all. Who would have thought.
Now that is really emotional. Every single time I watch that documentary film, it makes me cry at the end. It's just cruel.

turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby turbof1 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:10 pm

GPR-A wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Maybe hero was not the best description. Let's call it politically correct your 'prefered driver'. Anyway, nice attempt at beating around the bush as even Hamilton finds Rosberg a deserving champion.
Who is to say it wasn't a way to move forward? For junkies here (including me), it doesn't matter if we aruge on and on and on. But for him, it is absolute necessary to wash his mind and move on. I would wait for that book that is going to come after 10 years. :lol:

turbof1 wrote:You know what, good for him. It'll bring back balance between the 2 and allows for some friendship again. Let's not forget they have grown up with eachother. That's not simply erased by rivalry. Even Senna and Prost were able to reconsile right before the former's unfortunate end. I sincerely believe if Senna still lived, he would done magnficent and significant things together with Prost for the sport. Hey, thinking about that makes me emotional after all. Who would have thought.
Now that is really emotional. Every single time I watch that documentary film, it makes me cry at the end. It's just cruel.

We agree with eachother. Seems we are moving forward :lol: . I sincerely believe that Rosberg and Hamilton could become with Senna and Prost could have been: 2 rivals putting their differences aside for the better of the sport. Within a few years, nobody is going to talk about the events in 2016.

cooken
2
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:57 am

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby cooken » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:20 pm

turbof1 wrote: Within a few years, nobody is going to talk about the events in 2016.


Until they make a movie about it :)

TAG
41
User avatar
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: Undocumented

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby TAG » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:25 pm

Vasconia wrote:With better starts Hamilton would have won this champioship even with the Malaysia´s DNF. This is a a fact., just face it. If Hamilton makes starts like the ones done in the last races he could win more easily next year.

And with a couple of reliability issues Rosberg would have lost the championship. What does that even mean? Seriously to keep harping on the starts as the issue is like complaining your shoes are too tight because an anvil fell on your foot.

Rosberg should have wrapped up the championship back in Austin but he didn't because, he's not that great and has put in some embarrassing performances this year and well, won every race where Lewis didn't start next to him on the front row. He's a WDC and no one can take that away from him, so good on him.

Whether Mercedes gave it to him or not, we'll not know but we'll find out eventually, people on the inside can't help but talk. Ron couldn't help but brag that it was his decision to not give Lewis details that Jenson's wing was markedly faster in Spa 2012 just to prove a point, he needed the team more than they needed him. (we know how that turned out :mrgreen: )Twittergate started out as sore loser Hamilton being a sore loser, turned out we didn't have all the facts, didn't stop the interwebz from making up their minds.
It would be nice to see a third team up there to mix it with the Bulls and the Arrows.

turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby turbof1 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:21 pm

TAG wrote:
Vasconia wrote:With better starts Hamilton would have won this champioship even with the Malaysia´s DNF. This is a a fact., just face it. If Hamilton makes starts like the ones done in the last races he could win more easily next year.

And with a couple of reliability issues Rosberg would have lost the championship. What does that even mean? Seriously to keep harping on the starts as the issue is like complaining your shoes are too tight because an anvil fell on your foot.

I really, really do not want to go much further on this, but mechanical failures is something you cannot control, while you can avoid bad starts. Ok, I can hear it coming: "who says the bad starts were to blame to Hamilton?". I spend a couple of posts already on that and I am sure not going to do that again :D .

Ultimately, almost all arguments, pro- or contra-, are correct. I know I know "booohhh, go away lame partypooper!". This issue is: it's 7:30 am, aside 5 people everybody has left the party, the music has stopped, and those 5 are all stumbling across the dancefloor being way too drunk. Maybe time to rap it up.

Just_a_fan
218
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby Just_a_fan » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:22 pm

cooken wrote:
turbof1 wrote: Within a few years, nobody is going to talk about the events in 2016.


Until they make a movie about it :)

In the movie Rosberg will be a yank and Hamilton will have a cut glass English accent. Rosberg's character will have a back story of destitution and despair through which he rises to defeat his enemies. Hamilton will be a Lord's son, spending the family fortune on girls and racing. There'll be drugs and domestic violence in there too.

Both characters will be played by white actors.

Such is history in Hollywood... #-o
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

Vasconia
26
User avatar
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:45 am
Location: Basque Country

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby Vasconia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:25 pm

turbof1 wrote:
TAG wrote:
Vasconia wrote:With better starts Hamilton would have won this champioship even with the Malaysia´s DNF. This is a a fact., just face it. If Hamilton makes starts like the ones done in the last races he could win more easily next year.

And with a couple of reliability issues Rosberg would have lost the championship. What does that even mean? Seriously to keep harping on the starts as the issue is like complaining your shoes are too tight because an anvil fell on your foot.

I really, really do not want to go much further on this, but mechanical failures is something you cannot control, while you can avoid bad starts. Ok, I can hear it coming: "who says the bad starts were to blame to Hamilton?". I spend a couple of posts already on that and I am sure not going to do that again :D .

Ultimately, almost all arguments, pro- or contra-, are correct. I know I know "booohhh, go away lame partypooper!". This issue is: it's 7:30 am, aside 5 people everybody has left the party, the music has stopped, and those 5 are all stumbling across the dancefloor being way too drunk. Maybe time to rap it up.


I was going to give the same argument. Reliabilty problems and bad starts are not the same.

But yes, we are enough drunk, its late and I dont know if I will be able to take the bus to go back home. :mrgreen:

TAG
41
User avatar
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: Undocumented

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby TAG » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:56 pm

Last man standing wins the argument. That's how the interwebz work. :mrgreen:
It would be nice to see a third team up there to mix it with the Bulls and the Arrows.

turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby turbof1 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:14 pm

TAG wrote:Last man standing wins the argument. That's how the interwebz work. :mrgreen:

Yeah, I know that trick. King Leonidas: "Last hoplite standing gets 700 acres of ground!" All 300 plus Leonidas died.

AnthonyG
35
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby AnthonyG » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:15 pm

Rosberg won races when the engineer's imput during the race was heavily restricted. Hamilton being the purer racer this and that according to many, but Rosberg came out heavily on top when the driver was forced to manage the race on his own. :D

Also, Red Bull cocking up Riciardo's pitstop in Monaco handed Hamilton a win. That compensates other bad luck he had during the season.
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

cliffgamerz
0
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:49 am

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby cliffgamerz » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:54 pm

Let me end this argument once in for all, Rosberg won this title and hamilton lost was not because of any form of luck it was because billions of years back there was an BIG BANG in the Universe. Capisce .................... the end of discussion.

Facts Only
243
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:25 am

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby Facts Only » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:57 pm

Remember Bernies "medal" system for winning the championship? When was that meant to be '09? There was outcry against it at the time but I kind of liked it, it totally rewarded going all out for the win.

It would have changed the outcome of this years titles but would it have changed any others? (between when Bernies wanted to bring it in and now?

My main problem with the current system is that winning isn't rewarded as highly as it should be. For me it is absolutely crucial that the points for first are >= the points for 2nd and 3rd combined that way a team will always be better off pushing for the win even if they are holding 2nd and 3rd in the race. Like when it was 1st: 10, 2nd: 6, 3rd: 4

Currently its 1st: 25, 2nd: 18, 3rd: 15

2nd and 3rd = 33 points so 1st should be at least at least 33 points. Personally I think the simple thing would be to change it to 1st: 35, 2nd: 20, 3rd: 15, that way going for the win would be more heavily rewarded but it would still be a championship of points accumulation (unlike the medal system)

Just my thoughts anyway.

Persoanlly I dont think Rosberg is a great champ but Hamiltons starts were his biggest problem, not the reliability. And no there wasnt some sort of conspiracy at Merc, thats just retarded.

On Sunday when Rosberg took the title my partner (non F1 fan) said to me: "so Hamilton has won, he's champion again" Me: "No he didnt get enough points" Partner: "Oh, so Vettel is champion agian?"
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

SR71
64
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby SR71 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:25 pm

AnthonyG wrote:Rosberg won races when the engineer's imput during the race was heavily restricted. Hamilton being the purer racer this and that according to many, but Rosberg came out heavily on top when the driver was forced to manage the race on his own. :D

Also, Red Bull cocking up Riciardo's pitstop in Monaco handed Hamilton a win. That compensates other bad luck he had during the season.



You forget that Hamiltons FREE WIN in monaco and FREE win in mexico arent luck! He deserved those free wins because he's Hamilton.

But hey, they can't all be 4X WDC's :-)

This makes me wonder how badly Vettel would be rated by Ham fans if Vettel had lost a championship with the most dominate car. Vettel did have the worst luck between him and Webber afterall, with more mechanical failures over their seasons together. He still won though :-)

Phil
165
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby Phil » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:15 pm

turbof1 wrote:
TAG wrote:
Vasconia wrote:With better starts Hamilton would have won this champioship even with the Malaysia´s DNF. This is a a fact., just face it. If Hamilton makes starts like the ones done in the last races he could win more easily next year.

And with a couple of reliability issues Rosberg would have lost the championship. What does that even mean? Seriously to keep harping on the starts as the issue is like complaining your shoes are too tight because an anvil fell on your foot.

I really, really do not want to go much further on this, but mechanical failures is something you cannot control, while you can avoid bad starts. Ok, I can hear it coming: "who says the bad starts were to blame to Hamilton?". I spend a couple of posts already on that and I am sure not going to do that again :D .


Personally, why argue over the starts where there never will be an ounce of certainty how much he lost through it? What if start had been better? Would he have still won the GP? Probably. Guaranteed? No.

However, Malaysia is much more certain beyond any reasonable doubt. Hamilton was leading with a significant margin with just 14 laps to go. Rosberg at that point was down to 4th. Was Hamilton going to win that GP if his engine hadn't blown? Very probable. Guaranteed? No, but almost. At worst, he was going to be 2nd (Verstappen I think on that alternate strategy of stopping one time less that might have had track position), but Rosberg was still going to be down in 4th. Best case: Hamilton 25 points, Rosberg 12 points instead of 0 points and 15 points for Rosberg. Point swing: 28 points in Hamiltons favor.

Lets assume Hamilton had finished 2nd with Rosberg 4th: 18 points to 12 points instead of again 0 points and 15 points. That's 21 point swing.

We can discuss about starts all day long, the matter of fact is, Rosberg had his fair share of bad starts as well. Why do we demand Hamilton to drive a flawless "perfect" season of 21 races just to ignore that one DNF that made a significant difference to the championship race?


There is one point though that needs to be brought up though: Had Hamilton not have his DNF, I would have expected a more strong (but maybe more nervous) Rosberg towards the end of the season. There is always a "butterfly" effect of sorts. Had that one race gone different, there's a large likelihood the other races would have panned out different as well. You do need to wonder though: Having all these technical issues at the beginning of the year did make a difference for Hamilton. You lose confidence in the car and the pressure was higher to deliver. He also was further handicapped by the necessity of requiring more engines that again limited his ability in Spa. And he still had the blowout in Malaysia. All that vs. the bullet proof car of his team-mate who had one minor issue - that being the gearbox that needed to be replaced under park ferme and set him back 5 positions in Austria.



Anyway - the best post of this topic for me goes to Ben:

bhall II wrote:Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. (Ask the average Vettel fan what that's like.)


+10000. =D>

PS: I would love to put that in as a signature. I might just do that.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. (Ask the average Vettel fan what that's like.) --- bhall II

dobbster71
8
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:55 pm

Re: The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

Postby dobbster71 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:22 pm

According to UK radio reports, Nico Rosberg has retired from F1!!
WRC is for boys. Group B was for men!
Juha Kankkunen




Return to “General chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 3 guests