End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

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turbof1
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:33 pm

ME4ME wrote:
Facts Only wrote:I've been trying to think what moment best summed up the era, for me its definitely Bahrain 2014 after the restart. Lewis and Nico fighting hard and letting the W05 off the leash, they left the rest of the pack for dead showing what the car could really do.
How is that representitive of 14-15-16? Most of the time, the car was on the leash.
It represents the dominance inherent to the car.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:45 pm

Facts Only wrote:I've been trying to think what moment best summed up the era, for me its definitely Bahrain 2014 after the restart. Lewis and Nico fighting hard and letting the W05 off the leash, they left the rest of the pack for dead showing what the car could really do.

How about the absolute track records at a couple tracks this year?

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by dans79 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:47 pm

turbof1 wrote:Like Facts Only said, the development of these technological marvels called PUs has been marvelous. I'm not quite sure we should believe they already got to +1000bhp, but they are realistically speaking closing in. Giving this has to be done with a fixed max fuel flow and 100kg of fuel, this is how F1 should look like: a technological prototype giving answers to nowaday's daily issues which demand efficiency.
Don't forget they are increasing the fuel limit to 105kg next year, so they will most likely be over 1000HP next year, and could be pushing 1100hp if you believe what they say about the Merc.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by rscsr » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:54 pm

dans79 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Like Facts Only said, the development of these technological marvels called PUs has been marvelous. I'm not quite sure we should believe they already got to +1000bhp, but they are realistically speaking closing in. Giving this has to be done with a fixed max fuel flow and 100kg of fuel, this is how F1 should look like: a technological prototype giving answers to nowaday's daily issues which demand efficiency.
Don't forget they are increasing the fuel limit to 105kg next year, so they will most likely be over 1000HP next year, and could be pushing 1100hp if you believe what they say about the Merc.
They won't increase the fuel flow from 100kg/h. So the engines won't produce more peak power due to that.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by dans79 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:56 pm

rscsr wrote:
dans79 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Like Facts Only said, the development of these technological marvels called PUs has been marvelous. I'm not quite sure we should believe they already got to +1000bhp, but they are realistically speaking closing in. Giving this has to be done with a fixed max fuel flow and 100kg of fuel, this is how F1 should look like: a technological prototype giving answers to nowaday's daily issues which demand efficiency.
Don't forget they are increasing the fuel limit to 105kg next year, so they will most likely be over 1000HP next year, and could be pushing 1100hp if you believe what they say about the Merc.
They won't increase the fuel flow from 100kg/h. So the engines won't produce more peak power due to that.
I have seen nothing that says the flow rate won't go up as well.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:58 pm

dans79 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Like Facts Only said, the development of these technological marvels called PUs has been marvelous. I'm not quite sure we should believe they already got to +1000bhp, but they are realistically speaking closing in. Giving this has to be done with a fixed max fuel flow and 100kg of fuel, this is how F1 should look like: a technological prototype giving answers to nowaday's daily issues which demand efficiency.
Don't forget they are increasing the fuel limit to 105kg next year, so they will most likely be over 1000HP next year, and could be pushing 1100hp if you believe what they say about the Merc.
I think the current estimations on power are made on peak power, when running the max fuel flow as long as possible. (qualifying) The 105kg will only increase average power in the race.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by ME4ME » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:42 pm

turbof1 wrote:
ME4ME wrote:
Facts Only wrote:I've been trying to think what moment best summed up the era, for me its definitely Bahrain 2014 after the restart. Lewis and Nico fighting hard and letting the W05 off the leash, they left the rest of the pack for dead showing what the car could really do.
How is that representitive of 14-15-16? Most of the time, the car was on the leash.
It represents the dominance inherent to the car.
Which we barely got to see. Bahrain is some kind of unicorn.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by rscsr » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:57 pm

dans79 wrote:
rscsr wrote:
dans79 wrote:
Don't forget they are increasing the fuel limit to 105kg next year, so they will most likely be over 1000HP next year, and could be pushing 1100hp if you believe what they say about the Merc.
They won't increase the fuel flow from 100kg/h. So the engines won't produce more peak power due to that.
I have seen nothing that says the flow rate won't go up as well.
just read the technical regulations for 2017 and you will see that there won't be an increase in fuel flow.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by dans79 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:34 pm

rscsr wrote:
dans79 wrote:
rscsr wrote: They won't increase the fuel flow from 100kg/h. So the engines won't produce more peak power due to that.
I have seen nothing that says the flow rate won't go up as well.
just read the technical regulations for 2017 and you will see that there won't be an increase in fuel flow.
Thanks, i did't notice that they finally published the regs on the 13th.


however this is just stupid, as the only thing its going to do is help on some tracks where fuel needed to be conserved, as 5.1.5 is still the same.

2016:
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.
5.1.5 Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5.
2017:
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.
5.1.5 Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Vasconia » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:51 am

I dont like that much those PU though the improvement has been awesome. At least their top-speeds are notorious. but I will always miss the V10 sound, and even the V8.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Holm86 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:35 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Holm86 wrote:
Facts Only wrote:So we have come to the end of the current rules era (V6T in Narrow cars).
I don't really understand your timeframe? You talk about 3 years, but that's only the engines. The current aero regulations was introduced in 09, 7 years ago albeit there has been modifications to the regulations throughout the years. And the "narrow car era" startet back in 1998. Next year we get new aero regulations, so that ends the current era of 7 years, and we get wider cars, which ends the narrow car era of 18 years. The V6T engine era has only been for 3 years, and it continues next season.
He says "V6T in narrow cars". That's 3 years. This combination of engine and chassis is 3 years. They overlap for 3 years.

Next year is "fat V6T" but we're ending 3 years of "narrow V6T". 3 years. That's the timeframe. 3 years.





:lol: :lol:
Okay okay, just thought it was a bit oddly worded :-D As if it was the end of the V6T era as well ....

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:55 pm

dans79 wrote:
rscsr wrote:
dans79 wrote:
I have seen nothing that says the flow rate won't go up as well.
just read the technical regulations for 2017 and you will see that there won't be an increase in fuel flow.
Thanks, i did't notice that they finally published the regs on the 13th.


however this is just stupid, as the only thing its going to do is help on some tracks where fuel needed to be conserved, as 5.1.5 is still the same.

2016:
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.
5.1.5 Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5.
2017:
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.
5.1.5 Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5.
I highly doubt that any car will ever run with 105kg in the tanks next season, actually a smart team could get an advantage by continuing to run the same size tank as this year and most teams are already underfilling for a majority of 2016 races.

henra
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by henra » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:51 pm

ME4ME wrote: How is that representitive of 14-15-16? Most of the time, the car was on the leash.
It represented the real misery of this era:
Cars driving at <90% to conserve xyz. (replace xyz by fuel, tyres or PU life/reliability as you prefer).
And with a Merc that has a pace potential >>1s faster than the rest, limited over a race distance only by xyz.

Although I have to admit this whole conserving stuff has become less drastic over time. At least the teams manage to hide it slightly better nowadays...

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Steven » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:39 pm

While I'm a supporter of the V6T formula, I also agree with you that the saving of xyz is one of the major problems currently in Formula One. Fernando Alonso and several other drivers have been very vocal about this, saying it takes away much of the pleasure, and that qualifying really is the only moment of the race weekend that is joyful for a racing driver's perspective.

Saving some fuel may not be the biggest issue here. Mercedes are doing perfectly well, so it's up to the others to get up to that level, and allow their drivers to run less in saving mode.
The biggest problem are the tyres. This is obviously nothing new, but it's been one of the major talking points during the last 3 years, with hardly anything else than negative comments from the drivers. I am personally extremely curious if this will be remedied by Pirelli in 2017. There is certainly some potential, as more downforce and wider tyres should mean more grip, less sliding. But then again, we never know with Pirelli. They had their testing days, so no more excuses for them, and I hope at the closure of this "Narrow cars, V6T" era, we can also close off the "Tyres are crap and cannot be pushed" part of F1's history.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by mclaren111 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:21 pm

Vasconia wrote:I dont like that much those PU though the improvement has been awesome. At least their top-speeds are notorious. but I will always miss the V10 sound, and even the V8.
I also really really miss that wonderful V10 sound :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(



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