You're giving alonso's laptime too much credit. Webber's 2010 pole lap of 1:19.9 was neck and neck with alonso's pole lap from 2006 up trough the first 2 sectors, thus any lap equalling 80s will be in the vicinity of alonso's pole.Fulcrum wrote:Anyone managing to lap the circuit in 77.500 - 78.000 is probably driving in the vicinity of Alonso's 2006 Pole time.
Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?Fulcrum wrote:Firstly, Alonso having set the lap is not my focus. Somebody else referenced his lap. It could have been anyone setting the lap. I was simply stating the differentials we've observed in testing thus far and an estimate of what would need to be achieved to produce a similar lap under the current track configuration with these cars.
Webber's laps may very well have been in the vicinity of Alonso's, I don't have the data. If the splits were similar he probably was driving an equivalent speed. So let's expand the comparison and include him if necessary.
The current specification of cars have far higher levels of mechanical grip, they don't lose 6 seconds through the last sector like they used to; already this gap is closer to 4 seconds. My suggesting a 77.500 - 78.000 as an equivalent laptime takes this into account.
The fastest combined laptime on day 2 was 80.637 - 23.165, 29.979, 27.493; the first two sectors being a full 0.977 slower than the 2006 Pole time.
On day 3 they managed a combined 79.548 - 23.074, 29.713, 26.761; the lap was 1.089 seconds faster overall, but only 0.357 faster through the first two sectors, still 0.620 seconds slower than the 2006 time.
If you assume the same rate of improvement across the sectors as times get faster, lap times would need to be 0.357/0.620*1.089 = 1.891 seconds faster; i.e. a 77.657 being equivalent to the 2006 lap.
I fully expect the ratio of sector improvement to alter slightly as engine maps become more aggressive, but I haven't factored in the thermal differences between testing and race day either.
Bottom line(s):
- I'm not trying to credit Alonso - or anyone else.
- I'm not trying to discredit the current Formula.
- I simply wanted to assess lap time equivalence with the information we have available, even if this exercise is largely irrelevant.
Ralf Schumacher managed a 74.280 in Q4 in 2005, and that on grooved, bulletproof tyres. I don't think this year's cars are going to match that level of performance, primarily because of their significant weight differential.Wass85 wrote:Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?Fulcrum wrote:Firstly, Alonso having set the lap is not my focus. Somebody else referenced his lap. It could have been anyone setting the lap. I was simply stating the differentials we've observed in testing thus far and an estimate of what would need to be achieved to produce a similar lap under the current track configuration with these cars.
Webber's laps may very well have been in the vicinity of Alonso's, I don't have the data. If the splits were similar he probably was driving an equivalent speed. So let's expand the comparison and include him if necessary.
The current specification of cars have far higher levels of mechanical grip, they don't lose 6 seconds through the last sector like they used to; already this gap is closer to 4 seconds. My suggesting a 77.500 - 78.000 as an equivalent laptime takes this into account.
The fastest combined laptime on day 2 was 80.637 - 23.165, 29.979, 27.493; the first two sectors being a full 0.977 slower than the 2006 Pole time.
On day 3 they managed a combined 79.548 - 23.074, 29.713, 26.761; the lap was 1.089 seconds faster overall, but only 0.357 faster through the first two sectors, still 0.620 seconds slower than the 2006 time.
If you assume the same rate of improvement across the sectors as times get faster, lap times would need to be 0.357/0.620*1.089 = 1.891 seconds faster; i.e. a 77.657 being equivalent to the 2006 lap.
I fully expect the ratio of sector improvement to alter slightly as engine maps become more aggressive, but I haven't factored in the thermal differences between testing and race day either.
Bottom line(s):
- I'm not trying to credit Alonso - or anyone else.
- I'm not trying to discredit the current Formula.
- I simply wanted to assess lap time equivalence with the information we have available, even if this exercise is largely irrelevant.
Don't forget though that was before the chicane was introduced.Fulcrum wrote:Ralf Schumacher managed a 74.280 in Q4 in 2005, and that on grooved, bulletproof tyres. I don't think this year's cars are going to match that level of performance, primarily because of their significant weight differential.Wass85 wrote:Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?Fulcrum wrote:Firstly, Alonso having set the lap is not my focus. Somebody else referenced his lap. It could have been anyone setting the lap. I was simply stating the differentials we've observed in testing thus far and an estimate of what would need to be achieved to produce a similar lap under the current track configuration with these cars.
Webber's laps may very well have been in the vicinity of Alonso's, I don't have the data. If the splits were similar he probably was driving an equivalent speed. So let's expand the comparison and include him if necessary.
The current specification of cars have far higher levels of mechanical grip, they don't lose 6 seconds through the last sector like they used to; already this gap is closer to 4 seconds. My suggesting a 77.500 - 78.000 as an equivalent laptime takes this into account.
The fastest combined laptime on day 2 was 80.637 - 23.165, 29.979, 27.493; the first two sectors being a full 0.977 slower than the 2006 Pole time.
On day 3 they managed a combined 79.548 - 23.074, 29.713, 26.761; the lap was 1.089 seconds faster overall, but only 0.357 faster through the first two sectors, still 0.620 seconds slower than the 2006 time.
If you assume the same rate of improvement across the sectors as times get faster, lap times would need to be 0.357/0.620*1.089 = 1.891 seconds faster; i.e. a 77.657 being equivalent to the 2006 lap.
I fully expect the ratio of sector improvement to alter slightly as engine maps become more aggressive, but I haven't factored in the thermal differences between testing and race day either.
Bottom line(s):
- I'm not trying to credit Alonso - or anyone else.
- I'm not trying to discredit the current Formula.
- I simply wanted to assess lap time equivalence with the information we have available, even if this exercise is largely irrelevant.
I am aware of that. My entire line of thought has been to assess a comparable lap time from the current circuit map to the pre-chicane era.Wass85 wrote:Don't forget though that was before the chicane was introduced.Fulcrum wrote:Ralf Schumacher managed a 74.280 in Q4 in 2005, and that on grooved, bulletproof tyres. I don't think this year's cars are going to match that level of performance, primarily because of their significant weight differential.Wass85 wrote:
Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?
Fulcrum wrote:The sector times of the Alonso 2006 Pole lap were:
22.440, 29.727, 22.481 - 74.648
The best sector times from Day 3 of the first test were:
23.074, 29.713, 26.761 - 79.548
Comparing the times up to the end of Sector 2 we have:
52.167 (2006) vs. 52.787 (2017 W1)
...
Anyone managing to lap the circuit in 77.500 - 78.000 is probably driving in the vicinity of Alonso's 2006 Pole time.
Are you aware that you can google yourself?Wass85 wrote:I wonder how they compared to the 2005 cars over the first two sectors?
maybe I was too conservative..FrukostScones wrote:1.18.9
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