Refuel

[m3_lover]

Saw this question and it got answered on the ITV website

Hi Ted. Simple question, but one that had me and my friends wondering. How does the mechanic at the end of the refuelling nozzle know when the correct amount of fuel has been put into the car?
Keep up the good work.
Steve Bromley
Sheffield

I had this question last time, Steve, but since you ask…

There are three rows of lights on the nozzle, traffic light-style.

The red light means no fuel is flowing. Yellow means the nozzle is attached and fuel is flowing, and then the refuelling man gets a green light which indicates that the preset amount of fuel has been pumped in and he is clear to disconnect.

You might suggest there should be a light that warns the mechanic when the lollipop man has lost the plot and has released the car prematurely, but I don’t know what colour that would be. Brown, perhaps?

Why is sometimes the nozzle is hard to take out?

[Tom]

It damn heavy and two guys are trying to get it out in around .3s. They must be completly co-ordinated and occasionally one might lift before the other or the hose will just get caught on the inside of the car. The merchanics must operate a stiff (so it doesn't come out accidently) catch to release the mechanism from the car and sometimes they cab't pull it out all the way so it doesn't come out, by which time the boom-operator has seen the movement raised his sign and the driver has started driving.

Very good when it alll goes together but when it doesn't...ow.

I always thought their job must be as hard as the drivers.

[zac510]

Cos the rigs were designed for aircraft refuelling and not automotive refuelling.

You don't see LMES/GT/endurance cars having sticky refuelling rigs.

[DaveKillens]

The teams use a dry coupling pressure refuelling system. The FIA regulations allow a maximum of 12.1 liters a second, so anyone can make a reasonable assumption on how much is put in by counting the seconds, and multiplying by 12.
All the rigs are closely monitored and inspected by the FIA, and they also keep a second refuelling rig in the pits, immediately ready to substitute if the first one fails.

[DaveKillens]

The teams use a dry coupling pressure refuelling system. The FIA regulations allow a maximum of 12.1 liters a second, so anyone can make a reasonable assumption on how much is put in by counting the seconds, and multiplying by 12.
All the rigs are closely monitored and inspected by the FIA, and they also keep a second refuelling rig in the pits, immediately ready to substitute if the first one fails.

[Ciro Pabón]

Another surrealist question by me, after pondering on Tom's explanation:

A close in-law relative (guess who...) bought a nice Toyota Corolla. This car warns you if you haven't shaved. It blinks, boings, burps and baffles with an array of sounds and lights incomprehensible for anyone that, like me, doesn't speak Japanese and does not follow the Shinto way.

The few times I have driven the thing I have thought Christmas has arrived. I have thought of changing the engine for a diesel, buying petrol lamps and a battery radio and ripping the entire electrical system.

Anyway, if a humble Corolla apparently has the roof wired to the valves and the exhaust connected to the spare tire, I wonder:

- why in heaven doesn't F1 cars have a thingy that connects the clutch to the fuel valve to prevent early release of the car?

This is not just an Honda anti-embarrassment device. It is a safety device, as I guess nobody wants fuel spilled on mechanics and pilot, not even Ferrari's (it was just a joke, Manchild! nothing to see here, move on!).

Please, mention my name on the patent. You can get all the other credits....

As I am famous for rediscovering the fire (and several times!), I wonder if this is not used on some other series. Can anybody explain, please?

[Tom]

I suppose it is impractical and would certainly make the thing heavier.

Perhaps its a good idea though. I have a feeling the fuel hoses are FIA supplied but the teams might fiddle with them. If Max or any FIA 'operatives' are watching this topic take note or reply.

[dumrick]

I suppose it is impractical and would certainly make the thing heavier.

Just a wire added (the clutch is automatic), a sensor and software, I think. It would be hardly heavy...

[Ciro Pabón]

If Max or any FIA 'operatives' are watching this topic take note or reply.

Thanx, Tom, I'll take that as a compliment, but if any FIA "operative" (who? maybe Pa-bond, Ciro Pa-bond... hey, I like it!) is watching this topic, Max should fire them. They should have this idea already, or else they earn too much.

If Max is watching this topic in Monaco, he is crazy. I wouldn't.

I agree with Dumrick. It is just a microswitch and some software. Both (specially the last one) have been known to be light. Besides, the hose seems to weight half a ton, or at least the "style" of the carrier seems to imply it.

[zac510]

There is probably some reguations against touching anything near the fuel rig, especially after the 94 fuel rig fiascos.

[Ciro Pabón]

Zac, I agree with you. But you do not even have to touch it. Do you have an optic mouse?

Anyway, this, as Tom pointed out, should be done by the fuel rig provider. But this is not the question. Let me rephrase it: how do you avoid the hose being ripped off?

[zac510]

Good thinking! Maybe they do have it - but Honda does not

[Tom]

Wait a second, microswitches can create sparks, next to the F1 fuel. Could that be your answer?

[DaveKillens]

Technically, it would be simple and safe to install sensors that connected the refuelling coupling to the clutch. But my scenario is that each and every driver, once in the pits, would engage drive, and wait for the refuelling hose to disconnect so the car can launch. If there was any form of delay or problem, like a stuck wheel, too bad. The driver would take off regardless. Also, the refueller is very busy just monitoring the coupling, he does not and cannot have the time to scan the pits to look for oncoming traffic. He pulls out the hose once it is time for him to do so, and if another car is looming up, and in place to occupy the same time and space as the car leaving, then the laws of physics state that there will be broken carbon fiber, a bad crash in the pits.
It's up to the lollipop (isn't about time we gave this a better name?) man to monitor oncoming traffic issues, the refuelling, and tire changes, and send the driver on his way once all operations are done, and the way is clear.

[Tom]

Boom operator?