kimi vs schumi

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
jgredline
0
Joined: 16 Jan 2006, 07:07
Location: Los Angeles

kimi vs schumi

Post

After reading this story
http://www.feedmef1.com/html/modules.ph ... e&sid=4616
I decided that inspight of how much I don't like Schumi, I dislike Kimi more, hence I hope this happens. I would really enjoy seeing Schumi spank Kimi.
There will certainly not be a gap of 3 tenths between them, but lets say even if Schumi a 37 going on 38 year old buzzard stays with the young fearless Kimi, that would be an incredible feat.


:D
To finish first, first you must finish.

saam
0
Joined: 09 May 2006, 18:37

Post

We all love to hate people who win, especially if in this case its your team you support with drivers that dont really stand out.

Ask yourself is KIMI a great driver, now ask yourself the same question about MS. Dont take into considertion where he comes from, what he does in his spare time, his personality, we are talking about driving ability here.

And not suprising to know there will still be kids having a rant about MS driving ability (maybe the fumes of michellin tires have gone to their brain) but in any case KIDS will always be KIDS....

IMO MS will always be the best. and i also think KIMI is a great driver also.

neither KIMI or Alonso should be compared to MS, apples and oranges for me. at least so far....

whoever has the balls to sit in an F1 car is a great driver...
Always FERRARI


Everyones an F1 expert........

DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Post

Michael Schumacher is a great driver, I definitely agree with that. But there's a lot more to the Shu story than just what happens on the track. He won two driver's titles with Benetton, but when he signed with Ferrari is when his true genius emerged. And for the record, before Shu, Ferrari were the laughing stock of F1, spending a lot of money disproportionate to their success.
So when Micheal went to Ferrari, be brought key figures with him, and built a winning team around him. The cars were designed for his driving style and preferences. The team organization, strategy, everything was structured for one and only one goal, to give Michael the WDC. A partnership was formed with Bridgestone where the tire company designed and built their tires for just one man and car. Even the team's second driver was there for the same reason, to assist Michael in pursuit of the WDC. And he delivered, after a few rocky years.
So what we have is something never seen before in motor racing, billions of dollars and over a decade of dedication by one huge organization lavished on one driver, his pursuit of the World's Driver Championship. No other driver or team has ever done anything like that, and I doubt if we will ever see it again.
My personal opinion is that in Formula One, the equipment is 80% responsible for the win, no matter who the driver is. And if you dispute that, then please explain why Ferrari suffered in '05 when their tires were not competitive. It takes a complete technical package to win, from a stout engine, to a good chassis, to great aero and tires to even be competitive and make the top ten in qualifying. Michael knows this, and has been the glue that binds ferrari together. Behind the scenes, away from the track and in countless meetings he has pushed and driven and motivated a team to be successful. And it shows, the recent success by Ferrari and Schumacher is a record that may never be beaten, or even approached.
As I read the previous posts in this thread, I came to the realization that many were commenting purely on his on-track driving skills, with no mention of the organization behind him.
And I would tend to believe that if other drivers had such dedication and resources behind them for a decade, and built cars and a team purely for one individual, things would be quite different. Great wheelmen like Ronnie Peterson, or Alain Prost, or Ayrton Senna most likely would have had the same result, or even beaten Shu's record if they had not moved from team to team every few years.
It takes much more than just pure driving ability to win in F1, or to be successful. The organization and equipment has to be capable of being competitive with the competition or even the very best driver of all time in the entire universe would be a backmarker.

User avatar
NickT
2
Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Post

Well said Dave, I have to agree with you completely on this one, even though I personally dislike him.
NickT

User avatar
mini696
0
Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 02:34

Post

DaveKillens wrote:It takes much more than just pure driving ability to win in F1, or to be successful.
Yes it takes dubious moves and obvious disregard for your teammate, not to mention flouting the 'no team orders' rule.

MS is a great driver, and knew how to acheive his goal, I admire him for his forsight. But he's got too many bad points for my liking, which detracts from his achievements.

kimi_khodr_raikkonen
0
Joined: 16 Jul 2006, 16:50
Location: lebanon

Post

for sure kimi will win...
kimi is the best

allan
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2006, 22:14
Location: Waterloo, Canada

Post

DaveKillens wrote: Great wheelmen like Ronnie Peterson, or Alain Prost, or Ayrton Senna most likely would have had the same result, or even beaten Shu's record if they had not moved from team to team every few years.
It takes much more than just pure driving ability to win in F1, or to be successful. The organization and equipment has to be capable of being competitive with the competition or even the very best driver of all time in the entire universe would be a backmarker.
i completely agree with u dave, but that's what made michael so special...his dedication for the sport, which no other driver have ever had....
but i don't know why people always compare him to prost and senna! Those drivers are from a completley different era, and even though, michael competed with senna and proved himself as a talented driver, before senna's death...
on the other hand, schumacher had his bad sides as well, common he's not jessus....but when juan pablo Montoya came in with the same style of pushing and agressivness, he became the master of overtaking!! see?? it's only a matter of different opinions....

User avatar
Jason
0
Joined: 17 Mar 2006, 09:12
Location: KL, Malaysia

Post

DaveKillens wrote:Great wheelmen like Ronnie Peterson, or Alain Prost, or Ayrton Senna most likely would have had the same result, or even beaten Shu's record if they had not moved from team to team every few years.
It takes much more than just pure driving ability to win in F1, or to be successful. The organization and equipment has to be capable of being competitive with the competition or even the very best driver of all time in the entire universe would be a backmarker.
I completely agree with that, Aytron Senna would have beaten J.M. Fangio's record of 5 WDCs if he haven't died. If A. Senna was still alive now, he would have 7 WDCs under his belt. Alain Prost, or more famously known as "The Professor", is a great driver. I could imagine if he haven't move to Ferrari, he could have more WDCs than 3 only. Ronnie Peterson, not much known about him to me, but my brother calls him "Super Swede". The nly thig I know about him is his accident in Monza 1978. Now back M. Schumacher, or should I call him M. Colisionmaker? I admit he is a good driver, but I'll let you count how many dirty tricks has he doned? I think some drivers should give him a racing lesson, he needs one. Mika gave him one by overtaking him and lapping Zonta at Spa 2000, but thats not enough for the "Rain Master". Again Spa 1998, the "Rain Master" gives himself a lesson, hitting DC from behind and then get himself into trouble, ended up getting dragged away by the Ferrari mehanics.
Never regret what you do, but only regret what you don't do. - Jenson Button
http://batracer.com/-1FrontPage.htm?LW

manchild
12
Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Post

Jason wrote:Alain Prost, or more famously known as "The Professor", is a great driver. I could imagine if he haven't move to Ferrari, he could have more WDCs than 3 only.
Prost won 4 WDC titles and lost 6 more for overall 29.5 pionts! Among those 6 he lost 3 WDC titles for 5.5 points! One for 2 points, another for 0.5 and third for 3!

User avatar
Tom
0
Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

Post

In those days competition was real and went down to the wire though. Its not quite so close nowadays, we seem to get a close one every third year or so, this year has promise though.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Post

I suggest you read this short blurb on Ronnie Peterson, it may add appreciation to a very nice human being and one of the very quickest drivers of all time.
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/pete_bio.htm

These days, the drivers and teams have built on the experience of others, and the lessons learned. One of the best is Shu, and he uses team tactics and politics, and hard work to earn his enviable record. Team Lotus used the "the number two driver is there just to support the number one driver" tactic long before Shu arrived. Who knows how many wins Alonso or Kimi may have had if they had a teammate as competent or willing as Shu has enjoyed.
And although Shu appears as the ultimate, perfect Formula One pilot, it's my personal opinion from watching him in every Formula One race he has ever done, that when under true pressure for the WDC, something in his brain short circuits and he makes mistakes. And Shu knows how to play the politics angle than anyone. I'm willing to go on the record and say that we will never see Shu and Kimi in the same car, on an equal footing. Not that Kimi wouldn't mind giving it a go, but that Shu doesn't play well with others, and no way will he have a teamate that can beat him, or exceed him on a regular basis.

Mikey_s
8
Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 11:06

Post

There are unfortunately too many strong opinions in here for anyone to have the last word, but... I'll throw my hat in as there have been one or two strong statements made.

1) Careful jason; DC has (years after the fact) admitted that he lifted as MS came around to lap him - that was what caused that accident.

2) Montoya was hailed as a great overtaker, not intimidated by MS, but it's p!ss easy to go in hard when you have no championship points to lose and the guy you're overtaking is in a race for the championship

3) It is also rather easy to talk about what could have been for Ayrton and Alain... but the simple fact it that they didn't... F1 is full of what if's; what if Alsonso's wheel nut hadn't broken in Hungary, what if it had just stayed a little bit wetter... everyone can play that game.

4) I have said in other threads that I intensly dislike cheats and cheating (one reason why I dislike watching football (soccer)). I have also watched F1 since well before MS came onto the scene and I would say that pretty well all of the champs made mistakes when under pressure. However, the reall greats probably make fewer mistakes, and have a little more luck than the also rans. MS has probably got more black marks against his name than most, but he has achived more than most and like it or not that is probably part of the equation. Take Monaco when he overtook Ruby on the last lap and nearly his brother too... he does not settle for second if he can get first.

I like MS (a lot), he isn't a saint, but he is a great driver and a great champion. I would love to see him against Kimi. If it happens my guess is that he'll beat him hands down in the first season, as Kimi will have to get used to new everythiing. Therafter, MS is getting older and probably the odds are in Kimis favour. What will that tell us? i dunno - but I'd still like to
see it. I'm not sure Kimi is 'lucky' enough, he has the talent, but things go wrong for him, is he a car breaker? dunno that either, but I do know that a great champ knows when to push and when to look after the car. Alonso did a great job last year, and has done a good job this year, but (again in my view) has done some questionable things in recent weeks (doornboos brake test, and he was in the frame with the schum red flag incident; difficult to say whether it was caused by Alonso, but nobody knows the rule book as well as MS, and he knows that you don't overtake under red flags... so why did he do it?).

Let's go racing please and let's find out who will be teaming up with who for next year -

End of rant!
Mike

allan
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2006, 22:14
Location: Waterloo, Canada

Post

if u wanna compare michael with prost for example, they both moved to ferrari, but prost lost his nerve right away, as we all know, ferrari had one of the poorest reliability on the grid those days, but MS stayed with them, and pushed the whole team to get to his and their goal, The championship.
mikey_s, u r right! f1 is full of "what if(s)", i remember when michael won the 2003 champ, people started saying, "what if kimi's engine hadn't blown up in nurburnring?""what if kimi hadn't had all those accidents?" and bla bla bla
so prost and senna didn't achieve the "7" number, because THEY DIDN'T!senna stayed in f1 for about 10 years... i think he had pretty enough time to get the" missed "championships u guys are talking about

manchild
12
Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Post

allan wrote:so prost and senna didn't achieve the "7" number, because THEY DIDN'T!senna stayed in f1 for about 10 years... i think he had pretty enough time to get the" missed "championships u guys are talking about
Senna didn't achieve the "7" number because he died tragically and his death is what enabled Schuey’s titles as well as Hill’s and Villeneuve’s. Comparing driver whose career was tragically ended with driver who is still alive and kicking isn’t decent by my standards.

However, there is one thing Schuey will never get and that is general respect among F1 fans and colleague drivers. He can win 10 WDC and nothing will change that. He looted F1, he has most titles but also most disqualifications and worse reputation among fellow drivers and F1 fans. That is why he isn't even close to being called "great champion".

[EDF]Fx
0
Joined: 08 Apr 2006, 06:05

Post

Schumacher already has the respect of the majority of F1 fans and with a few exception(Notably JV) the respect of his fellow drivers.

Schumacher 4 the win!!!

/ Fx

Post Reply