Masks are falling

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Alexis
Alexis
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005, 20:24
Location: Belgium --Peizegem--

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That's a perfect example of the winning at all cost mentality. And it indeed is unfair. But has it had a big influence on the championship? That's another question.

It's unsporty, I admit it's a shame such things did happen, I don't like them either. But an F1 pilot can refuse obeing to two bleu flags without being penalised. So if there were only 2 bleu flags nothing illegal happened.
Ok it's a conspiracy but its a legal one :D .

But i agree Ferrari have done some bad things but others did too and will do in the future. They are not the only villans, you can be sure of that.
Show that you're a loser with a lot of money who can't get a racing license, drive the Gumball 3000...

Surry fer mai bed Hinglish

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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I've been trying to avoid this thread. But I cannot resist it anymore.

I just want to say that if I ever do something illegal, please, do not defend me! I can imagine what you would say to the judge: yes, he stole, but there are worse thieves...

It sounds like the story of the person that was "almost a virgin"... :D
Ciro

monkeyboy1976
monkeyboy1976
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006, 17:00
Location: Midlands, UK

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http://www.grandprix.com
SEPTEMBER 21, 2006
Sauber contradicts Fontana
Peter Sauber says that F1 driver Norberto Fontana's claim that he was ordered by Ferrari to block Jacques Villeneuve at the 1997 championship finale at Jerez is not true. Sauber told the Swiss daily newspaper Blick that in the nine years that Sauber and Ferrari worked together "Ferrari never expressed the desire that we should obstruct an opponent of Schumacher on the track".

And thus we come to situation in which we must believe one or the other. Sauber is an honest man, who is held in the highest esteem in Formula 1 circles, yet at the same time there is no reason at all for Fontana to have made up such a story and indeed his actions in the race are confirmed by TV footage of the event. This coverage features the following commentary from ITV commentators Murray Walker and Martin Brundle.

"Case of champagne from Ferrari to Sauber," said Walker. "Because the Argentinian newcomer Norberto Fontana, up from Formula 3, really, really, helped Michael Schumacher on his way there."

"What engine have they got in that Sauber, Murray?" said Brundle. "Isn't it a Ferrari?"

"Well, it is, yes." said Walker. "Martin you are a cynical chap."
Good old Muzza.

So, who do you believe?

Mikey_s
Mikey_s
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 11:06

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Ciro, I too tried to resist, but found it impossible too!

Anyhow, Pater Sauber obviously follows the forum and has responded to MCs challenge;
Peter Sauber has denied claims that his drivers were told to block Ferrari's rivals in order to benefit the Italian outfit.

Earlier this week former Sauber driver Norberto Fontana told Ole magazine, that at the 1997 Jerez GP his team was approached by their engine supplier, Ferrari, and told that if they were in the position to do so, they must block Jacques Villeneuve in order to help Michael Schumacher win the World title.

However, according to Peter Sauber, who has now sold his F1 team to BMW, there is no truth in Fontana's claims.

Sauber told Swiss newspaper Blick: "In the nine years that we co-operated, Ferrari never expressed the desire that we should obstruct an opponent of Schumacher's on the track."
; from Planet F1

I assume as it was guilt from silence then this must be innocence by rebuttal? (...but I doubt it!) :?
Mike

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NickT
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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I have honestly tried like otheres to avoid this but.....

Peter Sauber has denied claims that his drivers were told to block Ferrari's rivals in order to benefit the Italian outfit.

Earlier this week former Sauber driver Norberto Fontana told Ole magazine, that at the 1997 Jerez GP his team was approached by their engine supplier, Ferrari, and told that if they were in the position to do so, they must block Jacques Villeneuve in order to help Michael Schumacher win the World title.

However, according to Peter Sauber, who has now sold his F1 team to BMW, there is no truth in Fontana's claims.

Sauber told Swiss newspaper Blick: "In the nine years that we co-operated, Ferrari never expressed the desire that we should obstruct an opponent of Schumacher's on the track."

Hmmm.......

Ferrari never expressed the desire that we should obstruct an opponent of Schumacher's on the track

...... so does that mean they were mearly asked to obstruct Ferrari's opponents on the track :?: :twisted: :?: :twisted: ....
NickT

Mikey_s
Mikey_s
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 11:06

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Nope it doesn't ... read the article;
Peter Sauber has denied claims that his drivers were told to block Ferrari's rivals in order to benefit the Italian outfit
However, according to Peter Sauber, who has now sold his F1 team to BMW, there is no truth in Fontana's claims.

monkeyboy; I'd choose to believe Peter Sauber - I haven't heard anyone suggesting that he's a rotter (and that doesn't mean that I would consider Murray to be one by implication)

Doh! I have been sucked into it now... :(
Mike

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NickT
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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:oops:
NickT

Mikey_s
Mikey_s
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 11:06

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you're in it too now Nick - no escape! :D
Mike

RH1300S
RH1300S
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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:twisted: Maybe Peter Sauber wasn't there at the time.............picture the scene. The door to the Sauber motorhome darkens; standing there is Jean Todt; flanked by two large gentlemen carrying violin cases.

Peter and his drivers feel a chill enter the room and look up from their clock-making

One of the heavies - in a menacing tone - "Meeester Sauberrrrr was just going ze toilet".

Two frightened drivers are left alone with their visitors........

When the screams die down and the door shuts, Peter emerges from the toilet

none the wiser...................... :-#

Mikey_s
Mikey_s
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 11:06

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RH, I think you are onto something... Fontana evidently didn't do a good enough job and never raced for Sauber after 1997, but Herbie did take Villeneuve out early in the season (first race... fantastic how Ferrari were ahead of the game there... nailing him at the start)...

:idea: How could I have been so blind for so long! and all those people wearing sunglasses at the race meeting.. all Ferrari Henchpeople, of course.... hang on, I think there's one over there ----> 8)
Mike

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Good news, I just saw a little girl carrying a violon case and wearing sunglasses. I realised she must be a Ferrari henchman.....luckily the cops are F1 fans so they let me post this instead of a phone call.

Edit: Ironically this fellow is our latest registered user: FatTonny_x
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

Mikey_s
Mikey_s
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005, 11:06

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where was she headed Tom? - towards the RBR motorhome...? jeez, Ferrari are so darn clever, they are recruiting little girls to do the job now, instead of blokes in dark suits...

you have to marvel at their approach! True dediccation to victory :lol:
Mike

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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The relevant part of the interview with Fontana goes like this:
- What did happen at that race in 1997, when Schumacher and Villeneuve were defining the title? Did you block Jacques?

- Well... yes. Now that time has passed, I tell the story. Anyway, who remembers? We were at Peter Sauber's motorhome with the masseur and Jhony Herbert, relaxing the muscles. It was two or three hours before the race. And Jean Todt entered and went straight to the point: "By strict orders of Ferrrai, Villeneuve must be blocked if you encounter him on the track. Whoever must do it." And I have to. From that year on, Sauber was getting Ferrari engines that later were named Petronas. I stand out like a moron in the end.

- Why?

- When he was lapping me, I blocked Jacques on three or four curves, nothing more. And that was perjudicial to me. First, Schumacher never thanked me, and Todt, because they lost the championship, left the boxes upset and I never again spoke with him. And, months later, that situation was my burying factor at Tyrrell. Craig Pollock, the manager and friend of Villeneuve, bought Tyrrell. And beyond the money that Ricardo Rosset put in 1998, Pollock ended putting the thumb down on me because of that manouver. Incredible. But it is already history, and anecdote.
Well, he did not mention the violins, but it seems to me that Peter Sauber was not around. But Fontana and Herbert, perhaps, were in towels on the tables, to add a nice touch to the scene. Do Todt smoke cigars? :wink:
Ciro

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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When I said silence I mentioned puting Fontana on trial. But to put someone on trial you must be sure that you can proove your story and even more you must be sure that Fontana can't proove his.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

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manchild wrote:When I said silence I mentioned puting Fontana on trial. But to put someone on trial you must be sure that you can proove your story and even more you must be sure that Fontana can't proove his.
its a case of he said vs he said

there is no proof either way