Look who's talking!

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Look who's talking!

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/54968
autosport.com wrote:Ferrari tell Renault to play it fair

By Jonathan Noble Friday, October 6th 2006, 09:04 GMT


Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has urged title rivals Renault to not play it dirty with team orders in the final two races of the year.

With world champion Fernando Alonso having put the spotlight on team orders after claiming he should have been helped more in China, there is a growing spot interest in the role that Giancarlo Fisichella and Felipe Massa will play.

And although there is little doubt that both drivers will do everything they can to help their teammates, Brawn has warned that such assistance will be unacceptable if either of them starts adopting blocking tactics.

"What we mustn't have is the number two drivers blocking or intentionally slowing one of the championship contenders," said Brawn, whose team famously adopted such tactics in the 1997 Japanese Grand Prix to move Eddie Irvine up the order.

"It would be unfortunate and unacceptable. It is something I know we were involved in a few years ago and it was considered to be normal practice then, but it has been deemed to be unacceptable now, so we understand that.

"I think there is a certain level that is logical and fair and there is another level that has to be avoided because it is not correct."

Although team orders are officially banned from F1, following the outrage that Ferrari caused at the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, Brawn has said he is sure that Massa will make a decision for himself about helping Schumacher.

"The difficulty is after the fuss of a couple of years ago, any team orders that influence the outcome of the race are not allowed. But that doesn't stop the driver making the decision.

"If you radio your driver and say: 'Please look after the engine, please look after the tyres, we want to make sure you finish the race', everyone could interpret that as a coded message that you have to back off.

"And you make out of that what you want. It is very difficult for Felipe to win a race and stop Michael from winning the championship. I don't think he would want to do it. And the same with Giancarlo."
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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pRo
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 09:08

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:lol:

Attack is the best defense. They know how to play this game.
Formula 1, 57, died Thursday, Sept. 13, 2007
Born May 13, 1950, in Silverstone, United Kingdom
Will be held in the hearts of millions forever
Rest In Peace, we will not forget you

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vyselegend
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

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:mrgreen:

We have a saying here:

"c'est vraiment l'hopital qui se fout de la charité!".

One thing we have to admit about Mr. Brawn, is that he don't lack humor sense... :wink:

FLC
FLC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

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I wonder what the hypocrites had to say if Massa and MS blocked Alonso in the same way Fisi and Alonso blocked MS. I bet they would be out of their way to bring up memories of dirty driving and have a dessert with a conspiracy nonsense, keeping in mind that they got away with it with no punishment.

I wonder what they had to say if MS was the one to force Fisi off track while trying to pass him.

Yes, shocking as it may be, not only Ferrari does what it can to win, even if sometimes it has to be on the limit of common conduct.

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NickT
2
Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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:shock: Nnaaaaa....

just :roll:
NickT

3KGT
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006, 16:37
Location: New York City

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Is it really better to have teams order their drivers to slow down gradually instead of all at once like Rubens had to do in Austria 2002? The outcome is still being altered, its just not as obvious as it used to be when Ferrari first started.

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pRo
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 09:08

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FLC wrote:Yes, shocking as it may be, not only Ferrari does what it can to win, even if sometimes it has to be on the limit of common conduct.
Shocking? No, not at all. More like expected when it comes to them. ;)
Formula 1, 57, died Thursday, Sept. 13, 2007
Born May 13, 1950, in Silverstone, United Kingdom
Will be held in the hearts of millions forever
Rest In Peace, we will not forget you

FLC
FLC
0
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

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Them? Who? Missed the not only Ferrari part? Did you even read the whole sentence?

walter
1
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 18:54

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The anti-ferrari'sm of some people on this forum is making me not want to ever come back to this site.

obviously ferrari have blocked in the past, AND SO HAVE RENAULT. so just chill people... nothing wrong with Ross admitting to it and wanting a truce.

So enough of this eye rolling!

I for one want to see a fair fight. no matter the outcome, the real victim of team orders is neither renault nor ferrari, but the race fans and the series itself. A good ole' fashioned fair race is the real jewel to be preserved, not MS and not FA.

okay fellas, let there be a good race!

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Look who's talking!

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autosport.com wrote:Ferrari tell Renault to play it fair

By Jonathan Noble Friday, October 6th 2006, 09:04 GMT


Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has urged title rivals Renault to not play it dirty with team orders in the final two races of the year.

With world champion Fernando Alonso having put the spotlight on team orders after claiming he should have been helped more in China, there is a growing spot interest in the role that Giancarlo Fisichella and Felipe Massa will play.

And although there is little doubt that both drivers will do everything they can to help their teammates, Brawn has warned that such assistance will be unacceptable if either of them starts adopting blocking tactics.

"What we mustn't have is the number two drivers blocking or intentionally slowing one of the championship contenders," said Brawn, whose team famously adopted such tactics in the 1997 Japanese Grand Prix to move Eddie Irvine up the order.

"It would be unfortunate and unacceptable. It is something I know we were involved in a few years ago and it was considered to be normal practice then, but it has been deemed to be unacceptable now, so we understand that.

"I think there is a certain level that is logical and fair and there is another level that has to be avoided because it is not correct."

Although team orders are officially banned from F1, following the outrage that Ferrari caused at the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, Brawn has said he is sure that Massa will make a decision for himself about helping Schumacher.

"The difficulty is after the fuss of a couple of years ago, any team orders that influence the outcome of the race are not allowed. But that doesn't stop the driver making the decision.

"If you radio your driver and say: 'Please look after the engine, please look after the tyres, we want to make sure you finish the race', everyone could interpret that as a coded message that you have to back off.

"And you make out of that what you want. It is very difficult for Felipe to win a race and stop Michael from winning the championship. I don't think he would want to do it. And the same with Giancarlo."
Go ahead and hate on this if you want. When I first read it this morning, I knew someone was going to have something to say about it.

But what I've made bold says three things: (1) Ferrari acknowledges using team orders in the past, (2) Ferrari aren't going to be using them now, and (3) he just wants to see a fair fight to the finish.

And there's nothing wrong with any part of it.

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pRo
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 09:08

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pRo wrote:
FLC wrote:Yes, shocking as it may be, not only Ferrari does what it can to win, even if sometimes it has to be on the limit of common conduct.
Shocking? No, not at all. More like expected when it comes to them. ;)
FLC wrote:Them? Who? Missed the not only Ferrari part? Did you even read the whole sentence?
Maybe you need to take your Ferrari-glasses off for a while and calm down. ;)

With "them" I meant the things done to win, not Ferrari. ;)


I may have an avatar and signature that tells how I feel about some team and organization, but that doesn't mean my every post is against them or that I only believe the one unnamed team plays dirty.
Formula 1, 57, died Thursday, Sept. 13, 2007
Born May 13, 1950, in Silverstone, United Kingdom
Will be held in the hearts of millions forever
Rest In Peace, we will not forget you

West
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Joined: 07 Jan 2004, 00:42
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

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walter wrote:The anti-ferrari'sm of some people on this forum is making me not want to ever come back to this site.
Actually, the opposite makes me want to leave this site...

At least Ross Brawn admits that the team pulled some stupid sh*t in the past. However, it is Jean Todt's comments that may have inflamed some. He's already famous for Austria 2002. Now whatever he said, the way it's published is as if he hasn't done anything in the past.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

FLC
FLC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

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pRo, you can be sure that I'm totally calm.
Your original comment was rather blurry, and so I asked for a clarification. Maybe I shouldnt have suggested an explanation of my own to the reference of "they". I'm used to an anti-Ferrari posts from you and so I didnt expect that you would actualy admit the fact that Renault (and other teams as well) pulled questionable tactics, and consider them as expected. Thats what I understand from your post. Am I correct?

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Rob W
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

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I read this with utter disbelief that Ross Brawn would even dare venture onto this topic. Are Ferrari so far removed from reality (no matter that the rules and current situation support his comment)?

Rob W

Fan Solo
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006, 01:15
Location: UK

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This story has made me need to vent!! Cool forum :)

WTF was my first reaction when I read this, I nearly fell off my chair laughing tbh!! Sorry but this whole Ferrari v MS unsporting debate just gets better by the week, its nice to see a little bit of passion in this sport at last!! personally I love it haha.

RB what are you expecting huh?? Fisi to spear off MS in the first corner? * Oooh now theres an idea!*

You will be beaten fair & square!
MMIAFN

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