F1 Night races

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SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

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dammit mate you're sounding like a broken record. constant repeats.

i get your point. night races have happened in the US for a while. it works, there's star-spangled technology at it's best, F1 cars are no different to our cars in this respect, the results are fantastic, the races are safer than day racing, JPM will tell you F1 drivers don't walk on water in NASCAR, F1 is not so special that we need to reinvent the wheel every time BE/MM grows an idea, tell those backwards uptight euros running the FIA to keep their wallets in their pockets, just give our US suppliers' a call and they'll straighten this whole thing out yada yada etc.

now before you get riled up and tell me how a C6 vette leaves the latest M3/F460 for dead as a performance car, let me elaborate.

let's look at the facts. max's latest statement on the issue indicates that:

- there have been no applications to stage a night race
- no applicable standards currently exist by which an F1 night race can be held
- there is a process by which such standards/regulations are ratified, and this takes time
- there is a process by which events are approved against standards, new or old, and this too takes time
- they'd like to see the new, appropriate regulations work on a lower class race before attempting it in F1

he also infers that the resulting standard would form a regulation within the FIA, e.g. it would not only be applicable to F1 but to other relevant classes.

now... nothing in any of that says "he's wanting to start from scratch". the most you can infer is that if the schematics for a working example dropped on his doorstep tomorrow morning, there would still be due internal and legal processes to be followed before a night F1 race became a reality.

unless my experiences with a highly litigious US society don't represent what the US is really like - which i doubt - i can't see that what MM is saying is any different to what would have likely happened in the US within any motorsports officiating body once various suppliers had tendered their proposals for lighting up a race.

i would bet that such working schematics, existing (applicable) standards and the like have already dropped on his doorstep, and most probably from US suppliers catering to existing night races (or their representatives) in US various formulae that are ready to tender to new (and potentially quite lucrative) business. i'd bet MM has seen the pics, because those responsible have probably mailed them to him. i would bet these suppliers have every intention of not letting F1 start this from scratch as the generation of how-to knowledge precludes their business opportunities. this is common in tendering for any engineering work. in fact this may be a little preemptive, because between the FIA and relevant event organisers, noone has gone on record saying if the tendering process has begun, or, more importantly, who the process is tendering to (the FIA or the event holders). this is important, and i'll elaborate on it below.

getting the lighting happening is the easiest part of this whole night race proposal, it's the easiest by a very long way.

being a cunning person, i would read between the lines of BE and MM's comments and draw the following potential inferences:

whose paying for it?
note very carefully the complete ambiguity from MM/BE on who is responsible for getting a workable night racing solutions - is it the FIA or is it the event organisers? there's been indications regards who'd rubber stamp it and how it'd be implemented, but nothing on who really does the legwork.

i'd bet that the FIA at the moment is keen to let the two nations involved in night races - two occasionally bitter rivals that are keen to upstage the other - foot whatever bill there is for developing, adopting, researching relevant standards, processes, suppliers and the like. singapore and malaysia will very like not collaborate on doing this together, and as such are engaged in a competitive battle to deliver the best technical proposal to the FIA - at their own cost.

note, within this, that melbourne can't compete - the government here won't fund helping the FIA write rules for their requirements on top of the cost of an implementation, and it's no help being the last to the night racing party. so please don't come back to me with 'it's only $US240/hour to run them'. that's less than %1 of the cost of what's really involved.

how long has this been going on?
i'd wager that the reseach for this has been going on for quite some time (particularly in malaysia's case). you really expect anyone to believe that singapore went public on doing a night race in the last week of finalising negotiations? i'd bet it was in there from the start, and i'd bet sepang's organisers had it on the back burner since at least knowing about a singapore race. probably much earlier. e.g. it's been going on far longer than when BE made it public - that was more to get melbourne out of the mix.

when's it due/competition to get the unique rights
note the lack of any public mention of deadlines etc to date regards when a night race would need to be organised/certified/approved etc. i'd bet that either nation is not keen to let their respective cat out of the bag until the last moment - this increases the chance of the FIA ratifying one technical proposal for 08 only, meaning that either singapore or malaysia will have an 08 night race if the event holders get their way. what better regional spectacle than to host what your neighbours couldn't do 300km away? it'd be an immense loss of face to the 'loser' and a possibility (e.g. rubbing the other's nose in it) that either organising committee won't want to pass up.

is it a straight fight?
hell no. with a proper track, money invested in upgrades to a recent facility, BE going on record a while back to call sepang 'getting shabby' and a government insistent on showing it's nation can do anything, i personally think malaysia has more chance of getting it right. BE being BE, i'd bet that letting s'pore announce an 08 night race first (then 'unconfirm' it, a lot of murky detail there... basically BE/FIA just making a noise then) - with no prior, relevant F1 event experience - is more a catalyst for malaysia to fastrack their night racing efforts than a real attempt at get s'pore going.

and sepang is not likely to waste it's calender advantage. all the event organisers have to go is get there first.

regional competition
remember that the right to host a pacific F1 race is getting to be a really fcking competitive environment! of the FIVE pacific races in 08 (s'pore, sepang, suzuka, fuji, melbourne) - one is likely to go (sooner than 2010 if BE gets his wish), two have heavy F1 constructor funding (and thus are under no immediate pressure to get night racing going) and will last as long as their backers throw money at them, and the other two are held on regional pride alone. unless BE can successfully argue for >20 races per year and with a prospective 2nd US race, india, russia, a second arab race and some other minor players on the table, there's very little chance of there being more than 3 pacific races in future. it's playing chicken with high stakes - unless a japanese manufacturer pulls out in the near future, by the next end of contract there may well be room for only one of s'pore/malaysia. and there's a good possibility they'll all be under lights at that point.

any race organiser hosting a race on the wrong side of euro daylight viewing timezones knows this, and knows it well.

other motives
as elaborated on at length previously, this new requirement also serves to 'shake up' the existing pecking order of event holders. in the fallout there will be no melbourne race, failing a extremely large proverbial rabbit coming out of an extremely tight hat.

the other thing that might keep the pacific calender open
china's the dark horse here. potentially big market, very new facility, F1 not having much success tapping it at the moment - neither is motogp FWIW - though this could change. BE wants a race in china and a receptive chinese audience at least as much as singapore wants a race in singapore. think about it. there's a few more people living in china than in singapore, and they're currently not really interested in any international car racing series. so it's an open market if it can be leveraged appropriately, but it's not a loss that can go on indefinitely. so why singapore? i'll leave that to you to work out. it's all a game.

so you see ray, i very much doubt MM is wanting to start from scratch, i just don't doubt at all that BE is maneuvering to play the relevant event hosts off against each other to deliver the best spectacle - technical proposal/rationale and all - in the shortest amount of time. the knowledge to do it is there, you're right, but there's a battle going on with regard to who pays for it and who claims first - and it's an exclusive first right - to make use of it. night racing is being dangled as both an event requirement and a hosting honor, whilst being used as a way of ascertaining results regards the calender that will have been played out at the highest levels in F1 management a long whilst ago.

the FIA will save 'vast amounts of money' in getting a workable lighting solution they can use across many formulas, i don't doubt it for a second.

your US suppliers - if there half as smart/professional as the quality of their work - will tell you that they either haven't been approached or that they can't talk about it. because whatever the truth is, they certainly won't allow themselves to tell you anything about clients they're trying to engage, and they may not even be able to tell you anything about those they serve.

much like an iceberg, i don't think we (the public) is seeing anywhere near the bulk of the effort ongoing in making night racing a reality. it'll likely hit with full force though - we're far more likely to see an 08 night race than not.

i could well be wrong - i'm not BE, MM and i've never met either enough to get an honest opinion out - but there's certainly a lot to make out from the available information on this, and in that, this is just my 2c.

Carlos
11
Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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Ray - I don't think they will start from scratch - The FIA will be consulting firms that have done the lighting work before, maybe even taking a few NASCAR guys out to lunch and asking a few questions.

Every organization has to do things their own way. Ford, GM and Chrsyler all field similar V8's for NASCAR but they insist on doing their own design work- similar engines by several firms, all based on the same specs - each with slight variations - each doing things their own way. I would'nt think of telling - the guy next door how to cut his lawn - and he sure won't tell me how to cut mine. Makes for good neighbours :wink:

mx_tifoso
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America
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Will the "night races" include night practice, night qualifying, and night race, or just a night race with practices and qualifying held during the day?
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