max wants to bring back overtaking

[captainmorgan]

What about push-to-pass rev de-limiters, where the number of "boosts" a driver gets depends on how many personal fastest laps or sectors he gets in the race + 1/lap, and the driver in the lead gets no bonus boosts except the 1/lap.

Or how about seconds of boost determined by inverse current running order?

I'm starting to think that "spectacle" isnt an amorphous, abstract idea... A large portion of it is minimizing long gaps between cars.

[johny]

i don't think f1 should need those single series tricks to had good racing, main problem is cars can't follow each other and slipstreaming is so difficult

[mx_tifoso]

Restrict aero, marginally smaller F/R wings, wider track, slicks, and no TC

All of these I consider a step forward in the search for more overtaking, and since these rules wont be adapted until 2011(?), they also share territory with the powertrain issue, please nothing smaller than a V8 , and keep it naturally aspirated as well.

+ Bernie & Mosley retiring! They are too old to be contemplating on how to make F1 "better", all Bernie wants is money, and I dont know what the heck Mosley wants, they have nothing more to contribute to Formula 1. Not directly because of their age, but their way of thinking (outdated). IMO

[Deano_266]

Yeah why not? how many memorable over takes can you remember? not many i would wager as there havent been many in the past 10 or so years.

If you remem when Mika Hakkininen used to race

When him And MS were racing at Spa and both went around the outside of a minardi or something that has to be one of the most memorable

But that was in a decade wen rules werent as strict on aero

[manchild]

What about push-to-pass rev de-limiters, where the number of "boosts" a driver gets depends on how many personal fastest laps or sectors he gets in the race + 1/lap, and the driver in the lead gets no bonus boosts except the 1/lap.

Or how about seconds of boost determined by inverse current running order?
....

You can't artificially bring back something that was erased by introduction of sequential gearboxes, introduction of identical configuration engines and rev limiters.

Push to pass buttons and similar suggestions remind me on desperate plastic surgery operations of aged Hollywood stars who would like to look like girls again - that simply isn't possible and won't do the trick. Unlike of them situation in F1 IS simply reversible - bring back manual gearboxes and the problem will be solved.

[Torso]

well rew-limiter is by essense a JOKE in f1, and surely has done nothing good as to the " Bernie surge for overpassing"

this year is closer at the front because the superiour Michelins are history

but we would have more passing withhout the rew limiter keeping the cars "stationary" down the straights...

[captainmorgan]

I understand the logic behind bringing back manual gearboxes, but that also seems like a step backwards. Sequentials and DSG's are too advanced to simply drop, it would be like adding regulations requiring carburators. I can't even spell the word properly anymore, but the point is that they reduce wear, are faster, and are more efficient than a manual. Plus with 7 gears these days, the "optimizing" solution for teams would be to go to 6 or even 5 gears, to minimize driver mistakes.

Plus, with all the dials on steering wheels these days, driver's still have plenty of opportunities to screw up. Just look at how many times Schumacher and now Massa changed dial and brake settings in a lap, basically re-tuning the car for each turn.

The only meaningful suggestion I saw in what was mentioned was patenting new technologies and freely licensing them to teams. Obviously that would have to take place after a set number of races after introduction or after the season, but it would go a long way towards bringing the teams closer together, and making F1 more meaningful overall by advancing the state-of-the-art. More importantly, it would fundamentally lower costs, since teams would have less incentive to spend money on an advantage with limited shelf-life.

[manchild]

F1 cars have brakes with no ABS, no brake assistants, no individual power distribution, suspension is completely passive, ride height is fixed too, wings are fixed, TC will be banned... and that is all very backward compared to what passenger cars offer for years. That is why I think that bringing back manual gearboxes wouldn't bring F1 back in time because it is already back in time. If it would heal all the problems with overtaking I see no reason to give it a try.

It would be great if Ciro could come up with a graph/table showing number of overtaking per race let's say between manual and sequential era (or something like that). *No stats per season because nowadays there's much more races per season than before!

[PNSD]

Hear cars missing gears around Monaco... mmmm

[flynfrog]

where is it written that technolgy has to reduce overtaking

with better aereo cars could drive in more places around the track the same with awd look at the turbine indy cars much less power but had the ability to drive anywhere.

Who says that ABS Electronic shifting TC ect reduce driver skill

driving skill dosent have to be the skill of driving old cars new skills will be developed to drive such machines.


IMO they should give them a box to fit in and an air re stricter some basic safety regs and let the teams go



oh yeah and bring back 6 wheelers

[DaveKillens]

Here's my personal opinion why some of us do not see as much overtaking as we wish. Firstly, the rules are stable, and it's unlikely someone will introduce a radical concept that leapfrogs the competition. All teams have massive budgets, and all of them run scores of simulation for every race and scenario. So times are very consistent, and improvements come slowly and in incriments. The teams of the 60's and 70's look like low budget ragtag outfits compared to the present teams.
Although he did not invent it, Michael Schumacher raised the bar on tactics on how to pass in pit stops. So now, most drivers and teams put most of their efforts and tactics into manufacturing grid position by skillful use of pit stops.
If I was to lay blame on just one reason, it's the rules stability. All cars run relatively similar speeds in corners, and straights. Many years ago we had cars that went like rockets down the straights, and sucked in the corners, or vice versa, where they lacked straight line speed but cornered very well. But now, everything's so darn close.
I'm sure a few of us have the great simulation game "Grand Prix Legends.". The cars are historically and technically accurate. Some cars had powerplants with moderate levels of performance, but light chassis that allowed better braking and cornering. Other cars (like the BRM) had a car dominated by the engine, that when the car was going in a straight line allowed it to go VERY fast. But it sucked in cornering.
We just don't see cars that differ that much, they all are so close in performance in all areas.
The solution? Allow more diversity in design, open up the rules. If someone wants to run a turbo 1.5 liter inline 4 against a normally aspirated 3 liter V-12, then allow it... It's not bringing back the past, it's just allowing innovation and freedom of design.

[flynfrog]

my thoughts exactly Dave

[Mikey_s]

OK, I'm going to wade in with my 2 cent';

In my opinion the (apparent) lack of overtaking can be attributed largely to the absence of mechanical grip within 0.5s of the car in front. How many times do we see one car that is clearly faster than the car in front stuck for lap after lap behind a slow car and simply having to sit there until the mobile chicane pits, or makes an error?

When a car is faster than another it should be able to overtake - However, the reliance on aero makes this impossible unless the 'actual' difference in speed is about 2-3 seconds per lap - then they are able to out-drag the slower cars if there is a decent straight.

Of course the current regulations mean that the cars are heavily reliant on aero and this is their problem. The driver aids ensure that errors are minimised and that means the car following can do nothing until there is a HUGE mistake.

Personally I don't go for stripping the cars of all the sexy technology - that's really the reason I like them - but a faster car should be able to overtake a slower one... surely that's the point of racing

I would like to see driver skill brought back more to the front too; I think traction control is a bad thing; drivers that put the power down too hard should be punished, either immediately (with a spin), or later when their tyres are shot. Bigger run-off areas, so that a spin doesn't end their race, but costs them time.

[modbaraban]

slicks in - diffusers out?

tech question:

Will banning/removing diffuser improve the airflow behind the car for easier close following?

[manchild]

slicks in - diffusers out?

tech question:

Will banning/removing diffuser improve the airflow behind the car for easier close following?

If they ban diffusers than whole car would have to be redesigned. No one will need raised nose anymore (because you can eat only as much as you can chew and swallow) and front suspension would look different.