Alonso screwing Hamilton in qualifying

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doorboot
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004, 07:54
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I am shocked by the decision of the stewards, especialy docking the constructors points. That is sad and has absolutely no relevance to the misdeed commited. I do not think it will hold up against appeal though. My take on this is that this whole incedent provides a bit of spice to what promises to be a very boring race (weather permiting). This should also be an internal matter for McLaren to sort not for the race stewards. As to the team protecting or promoting the rookie "prodigy" please that is a rubish argument, the man is a prodigy he is by far the most exciting addition to the sport in years so lets not disregard him. I cannot think that anybody would blame McLaren and RD for being excited about a potential gold mine. By the way as a Common Whealth F1 Fan I love Alonso I love his passion and his absolute will to win. Ciro Pabón thanks for the welcome.
"I'm the manager, I make decisions, I'm responsible for the defeat - not for the victories, for the defeats"- Jose Mourinho

DaveKillens
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It's difficult to comprehend that the people who are supposed to guide the drivers and engineer race-winning tactics have screwed up so much, in McLaren. It's appropriate to assume the team has worked out a qualifying strategy, but the total lack of flexibility once things got off the plan is astounding.
Obviously, the effects of Stepneygate have affected everyone. From the race stewards with their draconian punishment of Mclaren, to Mclaren themselves, and even Ferrari. I think this is the worse qualifying we have seen from Ferrari this year.
And poor Ron Dennis, he is living a nightmare. Not only dealing with Stephneygate, but now, a full blown war between his two drivers.
Maybe the race itself will be boring, but the drama that surrounds this event sure is mesmerizing.

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Steven
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doorboot wrote:My take on this is that this whole incedent provides a bit of spice to what promises to be a very boring race (weather permiting).
The weather won't be a problem I think. And as for the race, I don't think it will be boring with Massa down so far. Alonso on the other hand is hopefully on a bit heavier fuel load. He really must kick back the FIA in their face right now on the track.
doorboot wrote:This should also be an internal matter for McLaren to sort not for the race stewards.
I stated it previously and wish to point out once more I agree 100%. It is totally ridiculous that the FIA is interfering with something like this.
Once again, judging from all radio stuff and the comments of the involved, I think McLaren simply completely messed up their strategy.

DaveKillens
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I also believe that this whole affair is the result of a few errors in judgement by the race engineers. It's McLaren's own internal problem, and the race stewards should have kept their big noses out of it.

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Principessa
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McLaren is been looked at under a microscope! The slightest thing that goes wrong will result in a punishment for the team. If something like this would happen at Spyker or Toro Rosso, there wouldn't be a penalty!

manchild
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How easy it is for FIA to punish non-Ferrari team and drivers and how unimaginable it was for them to do so to Ferrari in the previous decade... Mclaren stripped of WCC points, Alonso demoted, Fisichella was "impeding" Yamamoto...

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doorboot
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Principessa wrote:McLaren is been looked at under a microscope! The slightest thing that goes wrong will result in a punishment for the team. If something like this would happen at Spyker or Toro Rosso, there wouldn't be a penalty!
I have to agree with this, the scrutiny under wich McLaren is subjected is bordering on the ridiculous. This forfeiting of any possible points only benefit Ferrari. My question is why should Ferarri benefit from something that had internal McLaren repercusions? Ferrari and any other team had nothing to benefit or loose by what happened yesterday.
"I'm the manager, I make decisions, I'm responsible for the defeat - not for the victories, for the defeats"- Jose Mourinho

ShummiWho?
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I don’t understand the rulings of the stewards. :?
If Alonso did something wrong, why punish the McLaren team?
If McLaren did something wrong, why punish Alonso?
The only way this makes sense is if you buy into conspiracy theory that the team, including Alonso, try to prevent Hamilton from winning the WCC, and I haven’t seen anything to support that idea.

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Principessa
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:arrow: http://www.f1technical.net/news/6665

McLaren made a statement (starting to get a habit the last few weeks)

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Ciro Pabón
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Transcript of Hamilton and Dennis conversation after yesterday's incident:

Hamilton: “Don’t ever f****** do that to me again!”

Dennis replied: “Don’t ever f****** speak to me like that again!”

Hamilton: “Go f****** swivel!”

This, plus the phrase "there are occasions when the competitive nature of drivers sees them deviate from the agreed procedures" that seems to imply that Hamilton was being punished for not following the orders to let Alonso pass.

Why should Alonso be punished? McLaren could eventually, get its points back on the table, after arguing to stewards. Alonso cannot. This is a huge interference by the bureaucrats on the championship. I don't remember one so huge in my life. Frankly, after 40 years of watching F1 I remember few times when things have been so muddy. I can only think of Monza 78, when Brambilla was assumed dead and Peterson... well. That was a mess. This is another one.

I imagine that if Alonso goes off the track today, he will be repositioned on the circuit by a crane. Why did they change the ruling on that? Ummm... let me think.

Frankly, I feel like if WDC championship is worthless at this minute (I NEVER thought I would say that).

Alonso gazes to the left. Was he waiting for a signal? Or punishing Hamilton by himself.

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Now, another statement by Dennis:

“In this instance, it was Fernando’s time to get the advantage of the longer fuel burn. The arrangement was, OK, we’re down at the end of the pitlane, we reverse positions in the first lap.

That didn’t occur as arranged. That was somewhat disappointing and caused some tensions on the pitwall."

Some tensions? That's the understatement of the year... :)

Well, doorboot, thanks for your thanks.
Ciro

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Rob W
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Ciro Pabón wrote:Hamilton: “Go f****** swivel!”
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice call Ciro.

Rob W

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vyselegend
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I've already expressed myself here, but I want to add a remark:

The initial "matter", was about the second Mac Laren driver being potentially striped of a chance to maybe take the pole, which in the worst possible senario would result in an inversion of the chrome-coloured cars on the grid...

In order to make up to this terrible injustice, FIA stepped in and decided to screw the driver who signed pole for real, and then destroy the rule that consist in attributing points to the contenders who earn them!!!, a decision which was based on the subjective opinion of stewards who weren't personally convinced by the defender's explaination.

:arrow: In order to cope with a ridiculous grain of sand in britsh press eye, FIA threw a rock in the rules of Formula one.

Talk about bringing the sport into disrepute... :evil:

manchild
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Wanna know why Mclaren and Alonso were REALLY punished? Because Massa had bad quali result - no other reason.

F1 bosses need to keep championship undecided till the last race and they do same thing they've done before - punish obviously superior team in order to help their rivals. Last year there were silly punishments for Renault because they were beating Ferrari easily and this year we have punishments for Mclaren for same reason.

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Lightspeed
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manchild wrote:How easy it is for FIA to punish non-Ferrari team and drivers and how unimaginable it was for them to do so to Ferrari in the previous decade... Mclaren stripped of WCC points, Alonso demoted, Fisichella was "impeding" Yamamoto...

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Get a life bud. And get your facts right before you start shooting out your usual drivel. Its the race stewards who punished Mclaren and one of its drivers for blatant foul play. Replay the video evidence and tell me what part of it you could not understand. Additionally, the stewards had acess to the radio messages aswell.

The FIA directly had nothing to do with this penalty. They infact let off Mclaren untouched for a far greater offence which you are aware of. Heck, even Flavio is on it now.

manchild
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I'm not saying that FIA punished Mclaren unjustly, no - I said that they are easy on trigger when anyone else except Ferrari is on their sights.

It is simply impossible that in two years two Renault drivers get punished for impeding and that from 1996 to 2006 not a single Ferrari driver in all those races was ever impeded anyone and got punished. Schuey, Irivine, Barichello, Massa times all those races and no impeding at all, ever.

That simply isn't possible.

P.S. If you lack facts or examples to explain your point of view that's your problem but that doesn't give you the right to tell me what to do. Understood?

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