Did Hamilton cause the Webber - Vettel crash?

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megz
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Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 09:57
Location: New Zealand

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I wonder where the 5 car lengths are measured from? Lewis shouldn't have been on that piece of track lets be honest here, he didnt need extra water to cool his tyres or anything like that.

If its from the tail of the SC and the very most foward point of the McLaren he'd be pushing it...

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Militia Est Vita
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Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 15:26
Location: Mexico

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This one seems to be working just fine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJurnfxRm4

if it does, you can use this website to download it to your pc before --- FOM shuts it down.

http://www.keepvid.com

FLC
FLC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

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I'm not sure the FOM are entitled to order its removal. I think they now realise it was captured by a spectator.
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/ ... 4521.shtml

nae
nae
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 00:56

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having viewed the video it would seem that lewis made a mistake, he didnt brake for the corner when the SC did and ran past it. the SC carried on at its pace most probably accelerating whilst lewis dived off top the right to avoid the SC and braked. the concertina effect often talked about was clearly in effect.

it clearly wasnt deliberate

the onus is on the following drivers to to NOT hit the car in front (basic principle of racing it seems)

vettel says he was looking at the wrong car at the time and the fault (if hitting the car in front is a fault) lies with him. webbo was doing the right thing but unfortunately his habit of bad luck struck again. he could have ran up the side of lewis and gained himself a few more yards of space. he didnt . he got hit. yer sure its a shame but thats racing i am afraid.

if you listen to the drivers speak (and webbo aint a man to mince his words) they dont directly blame lewis . they use vagaries and avoid the issue with 'no rhythm'

thus its a judgement call and who is left on earth that trusts the stewards / fia to make a reliable decision

now for the bit that is beginning to piss me of about so many post on this forums

I dont follow any particular driver , i dont follow any particular team , i watch a circus perform on every 2nd weekend (on average) its dull by many measures of the modern world but i like it

I really dont like personal insults or insinuations when all we are trying to do is determine what happened in the race. if lewis had done a vettel x2 a kubica or a buttun or a wurz etc (ie actually hit someone) then perhaps i could side with a sanction

but hey its not a sport (ask the current world champ on that. monza 06) its a business/circus and the outcome of the investigation is by no means predictable or consistent (with any previous similar events).

personally i hope for a decent race on sunday, all the better if it rains

</rant>

if any one would like to talk in real time why not use the irc channel #f1technical on quakenet , ill be there for qually and the race

I wont be posting here for a while but will continue to read partisan post after partisan post ad infinitum. after all it is amusing

not to mention the main sites articles which remain informative and BI partisan and which i will continue to harvest info from

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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What a bunch of BS by the FOM. They have no right to take that clip down, just as a cars sponsor has no right to confiscate or prohibit you from posting a picture of their car. This is disgusting and illegal behavior by the FOM.

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Militia Est Vita
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Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 15:26
Location: Mexico

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I downloaded de .FLV video and made a .Zip file so if you guys have a problem in YouTube with the FOM screw 'em!!

http://danielaguilarp.googlepages.com/hamcrash.zip

you will need a .flv player that is easy to find on the web. Hope this is helpful for all u guys.

8)

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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nae wrote:having viewed the video it would seem that lewis made a mistake, he didnt brake for the corner when the SC did and ran past it. the SC carried on at its pace most probably accelerating whilst lewis dived off top the right to avoid the SC and braked. the concertina effect often talked about was clearly in effect.
So I guess you just STAB the brakes, come almost to a complete halt, and then not bother to accelerate again? Get real my friend. It wasn't a mistake. A man of his talent doesn't 'mistakenly' slam on his brakes, cause Webber to almost overshoot him, then NOT accelerate back up to the safety cars' pace once you have deemed that you aren't going to plow into the back of it. Your delusional or very bad at observing things if that's what you think happened. Besides he was in no danger of passing the safety car at his speed anyway. Even if he hadn't braked. He was driving stupidly behind the safety car, he delibrately slammed on his brakes many many times during the race. Isn't it funny how no one else was doing it that blatantly.

laidback
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Joined: 04 Oct 2007, 23:37

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nae wrote:vettel says he was looking at the wrong car at the time and the fault (if hitting the car in front is a fault) lies with him.
Hitting anything is a fault! Hitting the car in front while looking at another car is a complete f*ck-up!! Does he own a drivers license? ;)

laidback
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Joined: 04 Oct 2007, 23:37

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Ray wrote:
nae wrote:having viewed the video it would seem that lewis made a mistake, he didnt brake for the corner when the SC did and ran past it. the SC carried on at its pace most probably accelerating whilst lewis dived off top the right to avoid the SC and braked. the concertina effect often talked about was clearly in effect.
So I guess you just STAB the brakes, come almost to a complete halt, and then not bother to accelerate again? Get real my friend. It wasn't a mistake. A man of his talent doesn't 'mistakenly' slam on his brakes, cause Webber to almost overshoot him, then NOT accelerate back up to the safety cars' pace once you have deemed that you aren't going to plow into the back of it. Your delusional or very bad at observing things if that's what you think happened. Besides he was in no danger of passing the safety car at his speed anyway. Even if he hadn't braked. He was driving stupidly behind the safety car, he delibrately slammed on his brakes many many times during the race. Isn't it funny how no one else was doing it that blatantly.
If he didn't stay within 5 car lengths of the safety car (if that's the rule) then he's guilty of breaking that rule. If Webber nearly overshot him then that's Webber's fault, if Vettel ran up the arse of Webber then that's Vettel's fault. Isn't it funny how no one else hit the car in front.

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Rob W
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

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FLC wrote:At first he is exactly about where he should be. Only a second later he is aligned with the SC, and 2-3 seconds after that he is already too far away.
Thanks for the pics FLC.. I watched the video over and over and he definitely was jumping all over the place - in that corner alone.

That almost seals it for me... this is not far from being as bad a brake testing someone.

Rob W

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Rob W
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

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FLC wrote:I'm not sure the FOM are entitled to order its removal. I think they now realise it was captured by a spectator.
That seems like a misguided article on F1-Live.com anout ownership. A condition of entry to an F1 race, like a concert, says by entering you agree not to film.

For sure they usually turn a blind eye to privately filmed stuff but they have every legal right to say "the filming was done illegally" and prevent it's use by anyone.

In the end - it's in their interest to leave it online.. it keeps the PR and discussion amongst fans F1 up.

Rob W
Last edited by Rob W on 05 Oct 2007, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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laidback wrote:
Ray wrote:
nae wrote:having viewed the video it would seem that lewis made a mistake, he didnt brake for the corner when the SC did and ran past it. the SC carried on at its pace most probably accelerating whilst lewis dived off top the right to avoid the SC and braked. the concertina effect often talked about was clearly in effect.
So I guess you just STAB the brakes, come almost to a complete halt, and then not bother to accelerate again? Get real my friend. It wasn't a mistake. A man of his talent doesn't 'mistakenly' slam on his brakes, cause Webber to almost overshoot him, then NOT accelerate back up to the safety cars' pace once you have deemed that you aren't going to plow into the back of it. Your delusional or very bad at observing things if that's what you think happened. Besides he was in no danger of passing the safety car at his speed anyway. Even if he hadn't braked. He was driving stupidly behind the safety car, he delibrately slammed on his brakes many many times during the race. Isn't it funny how no one else was doing it that blatantly.
If he didn't stay within 5 car lengths of the safety car (if that's the rule) then he's guilty of breaking that rule. If Webber nearly overshot him then that's Webber's fault, if Vettel ran up the arse of Webber then that's Vettel's fault. Isn't it funny how no one else hit the car in front.

Not really. If someone darts to the side of the track, drastically reduces his speed, and then carries on after a few seconds, for no apparent reason, just like the 40 or so times before, what are you supposed to do? Pass him and take the chance of a penalty? No. You slow down just like he did. Which he had been doing the whole frickin race! Hamilton is NOT innocent of driving like an ass. He contributed to the outcome of the wreck directly. If he hadn't done that zoom up and stab the brake routine, Vettel would have had no reason to look at him. It definitely was all Vettels' fault for hitting Webber, but Hamilton is the one that caused them to bunch up so tight. You have to go off what the leader is doing. In this case, the leader was acting inappropriately behind the safety car. ALL of his actions were WAY overdone, no one was as aggressive as him in their movements as he was. Then the guy lies about it! What a great guy to possibly be world champ. We'll have another liar as WDC.

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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Rob W wrote:
FLC wrote:I'm not sure the FOM are entitled to order its removal. I think they now realise it was captured by a spectator.
That seems like a misguided article on F1-Live.com anout ownership. A condition of entry to an F1 race, like a concert, says by entering you agree not to film.

For sure they usually turn a blind eye to privately filmed stuff but they have every legal right to say "the filming was done illegally" and prevent it's use by anyone.

In the end - it's in their interest to leave it online.. it keeps the PR and discussion amongst fans F1 up.

Rob W
Where exactly does it say that? Does it say that on the tickets you buy? Are photographs not allowed? And who allowed that to happen? That's bullsh*t if you ask me.

laidback
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Joined: 04 Oct 2007, 23:37

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Ray wrote:
laidback wrote:
Ray wrote:
Exactly. So the answer to the question in the title of this thread is no?

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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laidback wrote:
Ray wrote:It definitely was all Vettels' fault for hitting Webber,
Exactly. So no reason for this thread?
Did you bother to read what the rest of that said? Or are you taking that as the sole part of my response you want to take in consideration?
Ray wrote:It definitely was all Vettels' fault for hitting Webber, but Hamilton is the one that caused them to bunch up so tight.
The rest of that sentence explains what I meant. Don't ignore part of a sentence cause the other part suits you.

No, Lewis didn't make Vettel drive his car into Webbers'. He put them both in a bad spot, which led to the crash. Vettel is in complete control, or should be, of the car he is driving. BUT, he can be put into situations, like this one, where the outcome can be grossly influenced by an outside source. Hamilton. Or rain. Or poor visibility. It was a matter of time before something happened. Lewis said so himself. He said that Mark was real close to him. What he didn't say is that Mark was getting real close every time he slammed on his brakes. Lewis is a cleverly dirty driver who plays everything off like it isn't his fault. Hungary qualifying, and now this crap from Fuji.