Alonso tire pressure at china, FIA investigate!

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:52 pm

Let's try to be balanced, for once shall we?

First, welcome to the forum BitFarmer. I hope this reception doesn't detain you from enjoying our company. I understood completely that you have been just showing examples from the Spanish media for us to comment. I guess it must be hard to keep a clear and unbiased view with the kind of media pressure put into the Hamilton / Alonso affair in Spain.

Second, most of the statements in this news articles and in the petition seem to be unlikely. I don't know which is the pressure usually used in F1 tyres. But 0.2 bar is a very awkward value. Also, a 650% difference in tyre pressures is something to blow the tyre or, at least, to make the car undriveable. Not something to make you lose 3/10 of a second. Then, it is known that the tyre warmers are used only to put the tyre in working temperatures. The warming up of the tyre is completed while driving the first lap out of the pits or so. If it was possible to warm the tyre up more, it would be beneficial, not the other way around. Anyway, if the temperatures had to go down, they would naturally while driving. Finally, the working temperature of a F1 tyre is way above 90ºC. I'm not even going to "facts" that are clearly wrong in the petition text, at the light of what is public knowledge.

I think that people must keep in mind that Spain is a country with little F1 culture. Hell, when I was in vacations in Spain in my teens I was very frustrated because the races weren't even televised, while in Portugal I saw them live since the early 80's. Then, it was the Rally frenzy because of Sainz in the 90's. A country that never cared about car racing was, from night to day, a country of rally aficionados, as they stormed the Portuguese roads to follow our Rally. The same is happening with F1 since Fernando Alonso started racing. Little culture of the sport combined with personality cult degenerates in this kind of event. I'm also yet to find a Spanish that watches F1 who's not an Alonso fan. I believe that for most countries, that's a very peculiar thing (at least in Portugal it is).
dumrick
 
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Portugal

Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:42 pm

i know d spanish media is biased about fernando alonso.well actually its a fact n it happens in every country.as far as i believe mclaren wouldnt possibly risk another threat by inflating alonso's tyres wid more pressure..as max had said it would bring serious penalty 2 d team..
so it might be 4 some other reasons..
kimi
 
Joined: 6 Jul 2007
Location: india

Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:42 pm

1 bar is equal to 14.5 psi. So 0.2 is equal to 2.9 psi!

In comparison, your regular automobile tire presure is 30 psi, and a bicycle's tire pressure is 50 psi. So in practical terms, how do you estimate 2.9 psi? You can check this bitfarmer by looking at the tire sidewall markings in your car or bike. These are the recommended tire inflation pressure.

Probably if you shake a warm can or bottle of soda, then suddenly pop the lid open you'd get 2.9 psi.

I hope now that you are enlightened not to believe the Spanish media to be 100% accurate in their reporting.

Try Googling facts first before you believe them.
casper
 
Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Location: Equatorial Guinea

Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:46 pm

Another thing to check is the fact that no serious F1 website has posted anything remotely similar - as I see it only the copy paste F1 blogs are the ones with the story - traffic generation I suspect :wink:
MMIAFN
Fan Solo
 
Joined: 7 Oct 2006
Location: UK

Post Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:24 pm

Militia Est Vita wrote:Ahora todos ya mágicamente hablan español? :lol:


Hola, este es mi primer post en este foro, soy un Argentino en EE.UU. Espero aprender mucho de todos los sabios de F1Technical.
:lol: :wink:
F1RusH
 
Joined: 2 Oct 2007
Location: USA

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:04 am

casper wrote:1 bar is equal to 14.5 psi. So 0.2 is equal to 2.9 psi!
Thats because the Spanish media don't have a clue and have replaced/come to the forefront (in regards to conspiracy theories) since Michael Schumacher left.

http://www.f1technical.net/articles/1
"Measuring the tyre pressure as often as possible is also a priority. Although low pressure (of about 1.1 kg/cm2) allows the envelope to grip the track better and provides a greater contact area, a variation of just 0.2 kg/cm2 can “ruin” the performance of the car. In order to ensure the lowest possible variations in tyre pressure (heat increases the pressure), F1 tyres are filled with a special mixture."

1kg/cm2 = 14.2PSI
mini696
 
Joined: 20 Mar 2006

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:49 am

I have not seen the slightest shred of anything to support this post about incorrect tire pressures, or possible sabotage.
DaveKillens
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2005

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:16 am

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63202

Total & utter joke! boy am I in a mood today lol

Why is this neccesary? Just drive faster Fernando.

At this rate I hope Kimi wins to shut the moaner up!

Sorry guys but its all coming out today ;)
MMIAFN
Fan Solo
 
Joined: 7 Oct 2006
Location: UK

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:52 pm

Fan Solo wrote:Why is this neccesary?


Well I did

raise the issue of the sort of difficulties Alonso is facing in case he intends to leave McLaren after this season and secure a racing seat immediately thereafter without having to sit out 2008, for example. Having already been protected throughout his involvement in the "spygate affair" by the F1 powers that be (unintentional or not), the FIA seems to be coming through for him on this one also (unintentional or not). The action is taken despite McLaren going to such lengths as inviting Carlos Gracia, head of the Spanish motorsport federation, to observe the Brazilian GP.

It could well prove to be a classic case of people whose job is to ensure that there isn't a spanner in the works becoming the spanner in the works by and in themselves. Maybe Hamilton should also request a scrutineer of his own who'd make sure that all the extra scrutineers don't hamper his effort in any way. An exercise in equality this ain't. It's a befitting end to a season the relevance of the championships of which no-one wants any responsibility for but everyone wants to win or dictate nonetheless. Frankly I'm beginning to feel fed up and if it weren't for the perspective that I've acquired to examining design, physics and such through this particular platform I might be more readily inclined to search a new pastime.

Some respect remains, still. I'm fearful as to when the grounds on which what little remains is being removed. There's a good chance of that happening now that all the extraordinary scrutineers are in place - like a post season round of regulatory and legislative tedium the participants of which are to bicker amongst each other until everyone involved is reduced to the size of their souls' content.

Grandprix.com reports that "if the German media is correct" (I could only find "Bild" referring to the story, so I'll hold my judgement), Alonso has already signed a letter of intent to join Renault in 2008. That'd be a breach of his agreement, the site implies - "Letters of intent", link. I've found the site increasingly challenging to read lately as they increasingly (in my subjective perception) seem to mix op-ed pieces and news in a way that I've found difficult to make informed distinctions between. But they're undoubtedly very knowledgeable, experienced and gifted writers so mostly I've attempted to make those distinctions nonetheless.
checkered
 
Joined: 2 Mar 2007

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:32 pm

This has been one of the best seasons to watch on TV in recent history.

Why is the FIA getting involved in everything mclaren do? Does ron have to say the same number of supportive words to Alonso as he does hamilton? Every week we have the FIA getting involved in something that to be honest is nothing to do with them. Did the FIA get involved when ferrari favored Schmi over Rubens or Eddie or Massa? No.

I am not deffending teams that do this but i am just saying the FIA seem to be trying to control everything at the moment and to be perfectly honest, i am losing interest in races cus i am never sure if the FIA are just going to turn over the results.

I am sure we are a few years away from the FIA just telling us who won the race to save money on driving around the track or for safety reasons.

Oh by the way are the FIA going to look into why mclaren kept Hamilton out till his tyres gave up last week? Cus CLEARLY ITS TO HELP ALONSO :roll: . Or maybe they just messed up.


FIA just Govern the Sport! Stay out of Internal team politics!

Sorry Rant over
I believe in the chain of command, Its the chain I use to beat you till you do what i want!!!
Sawtooth-spike
 
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Cambridge

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:41 pm

Just as I thought, noting but speculation and rumors. No facts to back it up, just words. If the FIA had uncovered anything incorrect about Alonso's tire pressures or setup or preparation, they definitely would have made open accusations and doled out a penalty to McLaren. The best they could do is to have a special scrutineer.
Just because someone prints somethign on the net doesn't automatically make it true. And this time, it was untrue.
DaveKillens
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2005

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:59 pm

Apparently, according to the BBC, there will be a specific member of FIA staff doing extra scrutineering on the two McLarens at Interlagos..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 038494.stm

"The FIA is appointing a special scrutineer for the race at Interlagos to ensure there is no favouritism."

:shock:

Does this not overstep the mark by the FIA by some degree? If the cars pass normal scrutineering, then what is the problem? FIA should, like others have mentioned, govern the sport, not internal team sporting tactics.

This is the best F1 season for nearly 21 years and is, unfortunatley, also the most political, imho.. :?
ben_watkins
 
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Location: UK

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:40 pm

Sawtooth-spike and checkered ... Me Too - I'm losing interest. Banal dribbles of gossip, personality worship, egoism, subterfuge, shoplifting and corporate spin... that's F1 for 2007. (Sign)

Then again, some interesting F1- tech and enjoyable conversation on the Forum.
Carlos
 
Joined: 2 Sep 2006
Location: Canada

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:25 pm

Fan Solo wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63202

Total & utter joke! boy am I in a mood today lol

Why is this neccesary? Just drive faster Fernando.

At this rate I hope Kimi wins to shut the moaner up!

Sorry guys but its all coming out today ;)


What a baby. I know that he didn't personally ask for it, but still. That is pathetic. If he wins the championship this year too, it will be yet another one where the title came with the help of others (i.e. Kimi's and Schumi's misfortunes in 05 and 06, respectfully).

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be fairness amongst the two team-members, but this is pathetic. If there is a special steward this time, what will stop the drivers from complaining and asking for a designated steward for every GP.

Destroy him, Lewis!
f1.redbaron
 
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:15 am

Carlos wrote:...I'm losing interest. Banal dribbles of gossip, personality worship, egoism, subterfuge, shoplifting and corporate spin... that's F1 for 2007. (Sign)

Then again, some interesting F1- tech and enjoyable conversation on the Forum.


I was going to suggest a few weeks ago that all conspiracy/spy threads now be put into one of the non-technical forums here. Almost every single thread about anything ends up being hijacked by some link to a completely unreliable Italian/German/English newspaper which has basically made their story up to get headlines. It is just pointless.

Rob W
Rob W
 
Joined: 18 Aug 2006

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